What federal law?
Look up Federal rules of evidence and Chief Justice Berger.
Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting
by Corney 40 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Fisherman
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Corney
The Rules don't prohibit elders from reporting instances of abuse, nor do they create a cause of action.
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Rattigan350
They are privileged just like doctors and lawyers and any other religious clergy type of person.
People just don't like the word 'clergy'. But the act of confessing to the means that they can not reveal it to anyone.
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Rattigan350
Does your organisation have a clergyman class?”
Answer ..No.Correct but JW church ministers are governed by Federal law that proscribes them from disclosing confidential communications under a spiritual setting.
That's because we've always hated the word 'clergy' and 'clergy class' because it elevates the elders to a job type rather tha
simply being spiritual shepherds.
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blondie
Rattigan, in the Catholic Church, one person confesses to one priest privately, but the priest does not share it with other priests. It is different with the WTS, because 3 elders are involved in the judicial committee or even if just discussing that person with the whole BOE, it is not the same. So I feel based on the Catholic Church handling of this, not even telling court/law enforcement, the WTS is being deceptive about this. But as informed ex-jws inform the non-jw secular law systems, those secular systems are having their eyes opened.
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Fisherman
those secular systems are having their eyes opened.
Secular law doesn’t have jurisdiction to define ecclesiastical confidentiality which according to JW is within disclosing penitent confession to other church authorities for further church process. Secular law only protects penitent communications to be disclosed and used as evidence against the penitent based on a rules for evidence standard. The legal doctrine is that someone going to a minister for spiritual help should be legally free to do so without fear of being prosecuted. This human basic need to get spiritual help would be denied if spiritual healers would betray confidentiality to law enforcement for criminal prosecution.
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luckynedpepper
Adding to what Fisherman just said;
Most often, confession is not sought within the congregation. More often, an accusation is made a 3rd party, the accused confesses or doesnt. This does not seem to meet the threshold of privlieged communication, but IANAL
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Fisherman
Most often, confession is not sought within the congregation. More often, an accusation is made a 3rd party, the accused confesses or doesnt. This does not seem to meet the threshold of privlieged communication, but IANAL
Ecclesiastical communications involving the adjudication of sin are protected. The JW religious system is a legal church and they consider communications by congregants involving sins (which may also be crimes) as ecclesiastical. Because the entire church process from the accusation of sin to the church proceedings in their judicial committees and further process involving other religious authorities up at the watchtower is defined as part of religious beliefs and practice by the JW religion, such communications can be considered as protected by the government.
A person goes to the. church to accuse someone of sin. A person goes to the police to accuse someone of a crime. However, mandatory reporting laws compel church authorities to report specific conduct to law enforcement and if they don’t they are breaking the law. But if they do the church can also be violating confidentiality protected by law—which is also breaking the law. Eliminate then the laws that protect criminal’s confidentiality to church and why stop there, eliminate confidentiality between criminals and lawyers.
If the government wants to dissolve church confidentiality and church jurisdiction over sins that are crimes or the human right for spiritual help, the reconciliation with God etc. That is that. But that is a breach of the separation of church and State. By the same token, the government can assume the role of the church like in theocratic governments of the middle east and dictate morality and prosecute immorality.
So the government is protected by 2 concurrent laws, one that abolishes the confidentiality rights of criminals in a church and another that by the same token protects the confidentiality rights of criminals in a church. On the other hand the same criminal enjoys confidentiality with his lawyer. Don’t be a minister or a lawyer if you want to help people or be a minister or a lawyer if you want to help people.
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Rattigan350
Blondie, I don't think it matters if a person confesses to one other or to a group.
The whole purpose of privilege is that if it is revealed beyond that, then people won't feel free to reveal anything embarassing or confidential of the past, so those people can't do their jobs properly. Privilege does not extend to planning future crimes.
Privilege extends to other Psychiatrists, doctors or lawyers, pastors anyone else within that "firm" or "practice" or religious entitity.
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blondie
Rattigan350, I was just saying how the WTS is being deceitful, hiding behind the label "clergy." at the same time saying they are not a clergy. Nothing really stays secret on an elder body. It only takes one elder telling his talkative wife, or nosy family members who look at KH files he has unlocked in a file at home (not allowed), or family members who listen in on phone calls. The WTS only tries hard to keep secret who the pedophiles are in their midst, or accept their plea for forgiveness, means slate clean and pedophile is very likely to continue abusing/raping children. I know that confidentiality is found among other disciplines, but then it means nothing if that individual tells other (even other psychiatrists, doctors, lawyers, etc).