We're not trying to convert you

by jws 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • jws
    jws

    Recently I saw a link to an article from the St. Petersburg times (one of these links on the side of this forum to sometimes old articles). It was an article about JWs and their preaching work. IMO, middle to favorable.

    But the one thing was from a door where the JWs are saying they're not here to convert anyone, they just want to share a scripture.

    What sort of BS is this? Did I miss the point when I was a JW for over 20 years? From what we understood, it was all about conversion. The preaching work was to save people and the only way, in our opinion, to save people, was to make them JWs.

    I had a couple at my door once (they didn't know my background and thought I was an average householder). They said the same thing and I tried to call them on it. No, they insisted, they weren't here to convert me. Just share a scriptural thought????

    How can they say this? Do they really not know why they are there? Is the "planting seeds" idea somehow different to them than conversion? Is it some split-brain thing where they hold 2 beliefs at once? Or are they just flat-out lying?

    Or has there been something handed down in the Watchtower where they are to plant the seeds and let God "water" them? Perhaps so as to ease their mind and make them feel more successful? "We planted 50 seeds today" is more positive than "only 2 people took our magazines and none of our RVs wanted to study".

    When I was a kid, we often started out with "sharing a scripture". But I don't ever recall saying that's the only reason we were there and would have admitted we were trying to convert.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    I heard it said regularly for 30 years.

    I think it's just a platitude to try and get householders off the defensive. I've heard it justified with the tack that they need the right heart condition and then God will draw them.

    Complete crap of course...

  • jws
    jws

    That's part of it. I specifically called them on it. I repeated it. I tried rewording it. Telling them (without saying too much to give myself away) that they believe I need to follow their religion to be saved and they want to convert me.

    They specifically denied every tack I took. That's what I don't get. Sure, you can fall back on your sales premise that you by rote tell everyone without thinking about it. But when somebody spells it out for you and you still deny it? Makes me think they're either too deluded or bald-faced liars.

  • HappyDad
    HappyDad

    I'm going back over 40 years ago. The older ones in the cong. would tell us that we can't convert someone. Once they see the "Truth" they will convert themselves. It still sounded like BS to me.

    But that could still be their way of reasoning on that statement. "We're not trying to convert you."

    HappyDad

  • blondie
    blondie

    This is an old explanation but pretty much what many jws use to convince themselves.

    *** w64 10/1 pp. 607-608 Questions From Readers ***

    Is it right to say that Jehovah’s witnesses do a converting work or a proselyting work?

    According to Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, to convert is “to bring over or persuade (a person or group) to a particular belief, view, course, party, or principle often from a previously held position” or “to bring about a spiritual conversion in (as a religious conversion in a person or group).” A proselyte is defined as “one who has been converted from one religious faith to another.” Hence, to proselyte is “to convert from one religion, belief, opinion, or party to another.” A proselytizer is therefore “one that makes or tries to make proselytes.”

    In Bible times, some foreigners became converts to the Jews’ religion. They were referred to in the Christian Greek Scriptures by the Greek word proselytos, meaning “one who has come over to Judaism, a convert, proselyte.” (A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell, Scott and Drisler, 1849, page 1272) The Scriptures and Jesus himself called such ones proselytes, though this term is not applied in the Greek Scriptures to those converted to Christianity. (See Matthew 23:15; Acts 2:10; 6:5; 13:43.) Yet, according to modern dictionary usage, it can be said that a person who turns from some other religion to Christianity is a convert or proselyte.

    The Greek word for “convert” is strépho, which means “to turn.” It is rendered “turn around” in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures at Matthew 18:3, where Jesus said: “Unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.” A related word, epistrépho, meaning “to turn about” or “turn upon” is used at James 5:20, where it is said: “Know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” The Greek noun epistrophé, which is akin to epistrépho, means “a turning about, or round, conversion” and was used at Acts 15:3. At Acts 15:1-3 Luke did not try to avoid indicating that early Christians made converts. No, but after saying that Paul, Barnabas and others were sent to inquire of the apostles and older men at Jerusalem regarding circumcision, he explained that during their journey “these men continued on their way through both Phoenicia and Samaria, relating in detail the conversion of people of the nations.” So, when persons at that time embraced Christianity, they were converted.—See An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W. E. Vine, pages 238, 239.

    To his followers Jesus said: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) Were they not to do proselyting work, to make disciples? Indeed they were, and Christ’s modern-day followers do the same thing. If turning pagans from false worship to Judaism was proselyting them, then, also, turning pagans to Christianity means proselyting them. Of course, they do not use force or unchristian methods in their preaching work. No coercion is employed to bring about conversion. Instead, Biblical truths are taught today by Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. Those with righteous hearts respond to the truth. It is not the personal force of the minister that changes the person, for Christ said: “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him.” (John 6:44) It is the truth of God’s Word, as preached by Jehovah’s witnesses, that sets persons free from religious bondage. (John 8:32) Those who hear the message of truth must individually decide whether to accept or reject it. They determine whether to turn around, to make a change in life, to quit being fashioned after this system of things and become converts to true Christianity.—Rom. 12:2.

    But Jehovah’s witnesses are doing a proselyting work, a work of conversion, just like that of the early Christians. Due to their ministry, hundreds of thousands of persons have abandoned Babylon the Great. And we joyfully look to the future, for there still remains some time for others to heed the admonition: “Get out of her, my people.”—Rev. 18:4.

  • jws
    jws
    @HappyDad:

    That may be true.

    For me, I tend to look for motivations and what are the results? I guess even if the people are converting themselves or God is working in their heart, the end purpose of field service was we wanted them to be JWs. So my mind snaps right to the finish. The end result.

    So to me, no matter how they phrase it or what the internal mechanisms are, the end result is they want everybody JWs. Their goal is to save as many as they can before the end - a thing repeated in several areas of JW talks, even in passing.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Of course they are recruiting.

    They call it 'life saving work' and believe if you don't sign up, you are very likely going to die at Armageddon meaning no magical 'living forever on Paradise Earth' prize. In other words, you HAVE to be a JW AND preach for Jehovah in order to gain eternal life.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    I heard it said regularly by other jws to householders while I was in, and it bothered me every time. I also never understood the explanation given - usually one of the following:

    "I just like talking to people and if they happen to want to become JWs then all the better"

    "We don't convert anyone, we just try to teach those that are interested - they have to convert themselves.". A variation of this one is that it's Jehovah that does the covering, with a reference to the "god keeps making it grow" scripture.

    I think there was one other that I'm forgetting but the point is that they're all deliberately deceptive. JWs love to change the definition of words and then claim they don't apply to them. Same strategy that they use in claiming they're not a cult.

    The dishonesty of it lead me to always just excuse myself and leave the door if it was my turn to talk and someone said they were happy with their religion.

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    Yes I used to justify saying it by the following.:

    I wasn't there to force anyone to convert, rather if they converted it was their choice.

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    My mother said that at every door that was opened that she knocked on . . .so obviously the lies start even before someone even decides to start studying or not !

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