Why do JW's never pray for the Spirit of Jesus?

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

  Hello everybody,

  I am new on this forum. I have been associating with the JW's for three years, and was about to be baptised soon (next month). However, I discovered on time that it is not right to do. I read this forum lately and enjoy the Bible discussions.

  My question is the following.

  
  

  My experience is from JW prayers only. I do not know how other churches deal with his.

  In JW prayers, I often hear the person praying asking for the Holy Spirit to come upon us. However, I have never heard people praying for the Spirit of Jesus. Why is this?

  In this verse below we read that we HAVE to have the Spirit of Christ living in us, otherwise we do not belong to him. So why do we not ask for it?

  Romans 8:9 (NIV)

  You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

  Acts 16: 6,7 (NIV)
  Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygiaand Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.

  In this verse in Acts we see there is a difference between Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus. Holy Spirit is the one that kept Paul and his companions from going to the province of Asia, whereas the Spirit of Jesus was the one that did not allow them to go to Bithynia. Why were both the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus interfering in the preaching work? Why is one of the two not enough?

  
  

  I discussed the question about praying for Holy Spirit and not for the Spirit of Jesus with two elders. They told me that if someone is praying for Holy Spirit, this implies that this person automatically is also asking for the Spirit of Jesus at the same time. Asking for one of them means receiving the two of them, they said.

  I asked, how could this be if they are two different Spirits? If the one is also implying the other, why does Acts mention them apart from each other? I told them that in my view, what they were implying was that the two Spirits are in fact only one spirit.

  Their response was that they just work perfectly together, without being the same.

  These two elders were in the past co-workers in a cleaning company. They worked together. I asked, imagine you two would work together perfectly, and if the boss of your cleaning company would call person A to his office, who will come to the office? Just person A, or also person B? Logic would say that person B will not respond if the boss only calls for person A to come. So when praying, if JW's ask for Holy Spirit, why do they assume that they receive the Spirit of Jesus at the same time?

  They had no response. However, I am interested in your opinion, since I also don’t understand this topic very well.

  Thanks for your responses
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  stan livedeath

  hi--welcome to the site.

  its a good job your not baptised--because if you were---asking questions like this

  I asked, how could this be if they are two different Spirits? If the one is also implying the other, why does Acts mention them apart from each other? I told them that in my view, what they were implying was that the two Spirits are in fact only one spirit could get you disfellowshipped.

  if youre not sure what disfellowshipping means--ask those elders to explain. also--ask them about shunning too.

  
  
  
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  evilApostate

  Sounds like you dodged a bullet. I'm don't remember too much about JW doctine but I can tell you that JWs are as anti-Jesus as any form of Christianity can get. They do not believe that Jesus should be worshipped or that he is God etc. They simply refer to him as the channel to God (which is strange since they also state in watchtower articles that the Governing Body is the channel to God).

  Therefore, you won't find them praying to Jesus or any such thing. For further research on JWs see jwfacts.com and share the information with your family and friends before they become entrapped in a cult.
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  NinaCee

  That is an interesting question! I never thought about that. The elders' answers seem to contradict their denial of the Trinity. Witnesses say the Father, the Son and the Holy ghost are three different entities, so to say that asking for one automatically gives you the other goes against their own teachings.
  

  Good job on thinking for yourself and bringing this up with the elders. I will tell you that Stan is right; challenging existing Watchtower doctrine is a definite no-no and will get you in hot water. It's a good thing you decided not to get baptized... you have saved yourself a lot of grief. What made you come to that decision?
  
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  Bobcat

  Here is part of the discussion from the BECNT-Romans commentary (Thomas R. Schreiner; pp. 413-14):

  The second half of verse 9 simply restates verse 9a and elaborates on it, so that the main point is not bypassed. Those lacking the Spirit of Christ do not belong to Christ; they are unbelievers and still in the realm of the flesh. . . Paul is not addressing what believers claim but what they are, and thus the text emphasizes that all believers have the Spirit. The switch from [Spirit of God] to [Spirit of Christ] is instructive, as is the change from the indwelling of the Spirit in verse 9 to [Christ in you] in verse 10. We should not conclude from this that the Spirit and Christ are identical, only that they are inseparable in terms of the saving benefits communicated to believers.

  The elders are agreed with this commentary in saying that the two are not the same. But of more interest is what Paul says just a few verses down:

  (Romans 8:12-17 rNWT) . . .So, then, brothers, . . .  For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together. (bolding is Bobcat's)

  The "so then . . ." indicates that the preceding argument forms the basis for what follows in verses 12 - 17. Yet those elders and the vast majority of JWs (as taught by the WT) will deny that these verses are true in their case and will look at any one who does think they are true as being mentally unstable or under the influence of 'false religion.' This idea, that what Paul says in verses 12 -17 does not apply to them, forms the basis for the refusal of most JWs to partake of the bread and wine at the Lord's Evening Meal in contradiction to Jesus' command to do so.

  The WT teaches this lie so as to maintain their control over JWs. The GB say that verses 12 - 17 do apply to themselves. But the rank and file JW is merely a friend or well-wisher who must hang with the GB and do what they say in order to be saved.

  Bobcat

  
  
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  midnight

  So this emplies that Jesus has his own spirit or" active force " or he is using Jehovah's but calling it his ? A bit confusing
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  scratchme1010

  Good that you didn't get baptized, as others mention. Keep looking for your true spiritual path.
  
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  Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

  @NinaCee

  It's a good thing you decided not to get baptized... you have saved yourself a lot of grief. What made you come to that decision

  I came to that decision while studying on the role of Jesus in the prayer. I started studying this subject around two months ago. I was completely shocked to find out that the Witnesses teach that Jesus Christ is only the mediator for the 144.000. No one has ever told me this, neither in personal study, nor in meetings. If this was true, only the remnant of around 15.000 of the 144.000 could justify praying in Jesus name. I was shocked. Who is the mediator of the rest of us? They teach we don't have a mediator! but that we can receive the benefits through association with the anointed ones. Most of the congregations do not even have people in their midst that proclaim to be anointed! Crazy.

  In my view, you cannot be a Christian if you deny yourself the simple truth that Jesus Christ is our mediator. How can we otherwise talk to God, and build a relationship with Him? impossible to me. I gradually stopped attending meetings from the moment I discovered this teaching.

  I live in a German village, the congregation in my village has no people who speak French. I am myself native French speaker. Nobody of my family is involved in the JW's. However, around half a year ago I encountered French speaking refugees from Congo in the ministry. They had only lived in Germany here since a year and did not understand German nor English. Since nobody of my congregation can speak French I was asked to go study with them in French. Normally I would bring a brother with me, but he was not able to understand the French. This is a family of 8 people that was very very interested and were already convinced it was the Truth. However, from the moment that I discovered that the Witnesses are wrong I have shared everyhing I discovered with them and I have told them to stop the study.

  The other brother that used to come along constantly asks, when are we going to that study again?????

  I said I am too busy with college to avoid telling him the true reason. I think it will be a matter of time untill it will be discovered though, since this family has been to the meetings quite a couple of times (even without understanding the language). So they will be missed eventually.

  Grateful to know the truth about the truth though!!
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  Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

  @stan livedeath

  if youre not sure what disfellowshipping means--ask those elders to explain. also--ask them about shunning too.

  I am familiar with the disfellowship policy. However, I thought they only do this to baptised people? I am an unbaptised publisher. Can they still decide to officially shun me?
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  evilApostate

  Jehovah's Witnesses teach that your relationship with God depends on the words 7 men refered to as "the Faithful and Discrete slave" or Governing Body. It would seem that the Governing body is the mediator for the great crowd according to their teachings.

  "Our friendship with God depends on receiving spiritual food through this faithful slave." (Watchtower 2013 July simplified)