inquiring mind has 3 questions (page 2)

smiddy

OutsiderLookingin,

If every JW took seriously the negative aspects of higher education literally , the majority of witnesses would now be living on handouts / welfare from the Governments who they reject as being misled by Satan the Devil .

Come to think of it most of them are .

Jehovah`s Witnesses do not participate in Government ,however they will take what Govts. offer them .

1/ They do not participate in Charitable Organizations , however they will accept what is offered to them .

Only giving to their own members does not qualify them .

Doing menial jobs because of their lack of education , they have little or no dental or Health care , so they rely on the Government to provide these basic needs .

They have no money or savings because of the low income they have received over all these years of pioneering and having menial jobs , so , who do they rely on ? The Government to provide for them .

The only people in the main who do have above average qualifications / education are those who obtained them before converting to Jehovah` s Witnesses in the first place.

2/ The majority of JW`s go back because they are victims of emotional blackmail ,unless you come back you can not see your son , daughter , or mother , or father, or grandchildren.

3 / study and analyze 1 , and 2 of this post , and come to your own conclusion , and if you think this religion of Jehovah`s Witnesses is something to be joined because of a romantic interest in the opposite sex , think again.

smiddy

DJS

Outsider,

As mentioned, Dubs often clean houses, etc. for a living because they are discouraged from seeking higher education, they bought into the lie that they will soon be living in paradise, etc. As a result, JWs are the religion with the lowest education and family income. As for leaving, yes, nearly 2/3 leave. It would no doubt be much higher if they got rid of the shunning policy. The best research on this comes from the Pew Foundation:

under the radar

I think most everyone would agree that cleaning is an honorable profession and those practicing it deserve to be respected and appreciated for the services they perform. It is good honest work and should not be denigrated or sneered at by anyone. Not everyone can be a brain surgeon or find a cure for cancer.

On this site, when the terms "cleaner, janitor, window cleaner" and the like are used in a pejorative sense or belittling manner, it is not because we think such work is "beneath us" or that we are somehow "better" if we happen to have more prestigious jobs. It is used to convey the thought that one who is only qualified to do such work is not qualified to counsel others about major life decisions, or make decisions themselves that have long-lasting and potentially devastating effects on others. They are not qualified to act as counselors or advisors in any professional sense simply because they do not have the education, training, and experience to do so. They can only apply a labyrinthine set of ever-changing rules and interpretations promulgated by their masters in New York, often at their direct bidding. To the faithful JW, they are perceived to have great authority and "godly wisdom," but their lack of specific training in counseling or any in-depth knowledge of human psychology leads to very uneven application of even their own rules and sometimes downright horrific outcomes for those turning to them for guidance.

It may be unfair and unkind to use the terms to imply such connotations, but I don't think it's done maliciously. Maybe it's just an unfortunate "shortcut" to make a point, however crudely.

Just my 2¢ worth...

OutsiderLookingIn

Smiddy and everyone else, no need to worry. I have absolutely zero interest in becoming a Jehovah's witness. It's more like negative interest, if that's possible. My theory was/is that never dubs are generally naive about what awaits them and love makes it easier to bend and harder (although not impossible) to walk away. So you study or try to understand. Then only after the fact do you learn what it's all about and turn here for support.

Jan, I hear you. I've had a study going for a few months with this woman I spoke to. Not sure where she thinks it's going as my initial question was about Michael not being Jesus and how that's a very disrespectful teaching. It's disappointing she gets to count me as a study. On the other hand, I'm doing my part to reverse witness and drive those hours to baptism numbers way up There have been times when I really have to restrain myself from screaming at how badly they twist the Bible to fit their craziness. What does the Bible really teach? Not that!

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for that, Under the Radar. I don't look down on it at all. Whatever you do, you should do the best you can. I was even going to include a quote from Martin Luther King about street sweepers but I don't think I can edit the OP. Was just curious because it's repeatedly mentioned here.

Beth Sarim

Outsider;

Because once many years ago I witnessed something. Where a Witness girl was dating a non-witness man. She couldn't bring herself to marry the man unless he was a dedicated and baptized JW.

He got baptized and dedicated into the JW religion probably just to have her. Turns out both did little, and more little in the JWs. And eventually nothing.

This is a situation where someone may have scratched the surface of JWs to pursue romantic interest. Hopes this helps.

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Very insightful.

DJS, I think you're right. Shunning is propping them up for sure. It's shameful.

joe134cd

Your answer to your number 2 question. I copied this from another post I made.

Guys thanks for coming by. I'd like to take this opportunity to give my perspective on where I think things are at. It amazes me an organization that is so focused on finding interested people at doors and keeping the congregation clean that they fail to see the real reasons why people are quietly walking out the back door. This current service year jws grew by about 18k publishers. In the United states alone they are losing 2/3 of their youth, and have the lowest retention rate of members of any major religion. It has also been estimated that about 1,000,000 walk on the religion every 10 years. There are a number of reasons for this but I will discuss 3.

(1) YOUTH- Clearly with a 33% retention rate their procedures in dealing with their youth has been underwhelming. Ok I get the Israelite and the kh ain't a play ground concept. But since I left the JWs 3 years ago (I'm not dfed) I have visited other churches and I see the services which are specifically designed for their youth as been a fun, happy, exciting, and an age appropriate place where they can learn about God. If they don't perceive going to the KH this way then I'm sure Satan has got all the fun and excitement just waiting for them. These churches spend hugh money on their youth focusing on their problems and creating a Christian environment. Other than writing a 2 page article (e.g your youth) about keeping your legs together or how fun it is to meet your school mates at the door and the joy of free labour on a Wt construction sight. What else do they really do for their youth in a practical way.

(2)INTERNET= It would be fair to say that for myself and probably stucknarut we would still be sitting in the kh if it wasn't for the internet. Guys there is just to much bad information out there. If you wouldn't buy a product of some one who warned you about not looking on the internet because of all the bad reviews then don't expect someone to choose a religion like that. Wt has simply just got to be more open and honest and accountable with its history and the origins of it beliefs. I didn't even realise there was a problem with pedophiles until very recently. It just saddens me really that it wasn't until I started visiting apostate Web sights that I learnt more about the religion i though i knew than in 40 years of attending the kh.

(3) RETENTION OF IT'S CURRENT MEMBERSHIP= Not that I am complaining but I have to say that the follow up I received when I left was very very underwhelming. I was a 4th gen born in and served it for 40 years. I sincerely believed it doubt free for at least 30 of those years. I sacrificed so much for it (e.g an education and marrying a lovely women). Although I never gave my reasons for why I left. Only 3 people could be bothered to see how I was and they were not elders. 2 of those 3 stopped in for a drink between calls. To this day I really don't know what to make of it. Insulted, at just there complete lack of interest (as I knew thousands of jws) or thank full because I really didn't want to deal with them. To think what I gave to a group of men in Brooklyn and for what I got in return I'm glad I never spent another second of my life in that religion. Anyway I think you get the point of why a million people leave every decade. Wouldn't your time and attention be better focused on this poor elderly sister in a rest home who no body visits.

Although i get the point of human imperfection and all the other reasons for problems I think Wt has certainly got some accountability and answering to do. True people may not openly criticize the organisation for fear of been DFed. But trust me they are voting with their wallets and feet.

Guys if you would like to have an open discussion on improving the jw policies and procedures then please feel free to message me on here. Strict confidentiality of course.

Spiral

I have many friends who are in the various cleaning professions. They are frustrated because it's hard physical work and by the time you are in your 50s it is so hard. Plus no insurance or retirement. I know several who now regret not going to college or some training where they wouldn't have to work so hard physically at this stage of life. They thought Armageddon would have happened by now.

jhine

Just bin sitting thinking one of the ladies who conduct the study with my friend only converted ( from a Methodist background I think ) because her fiancé was a Witness . He is now clearly mentally " out " and has been for a while , she is archetypal uberdub . I often wonder if he feels guilty , it certainly seems to have adversely affected their marriage -they don' t seem to spend much time together .

Jan

inquiring mind has 3 questions

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