Speculation about GT

by aintenoughwiskey 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

aintenoughwiskey

What were/are your speculations about the great tribulation. Unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved?
Finkelstein

Its going to start next week.
I've got my bunker all prepared.
Vanderhoven7
Is the GT future or fulfilled, local or worldwide??

Try this commentary on Matthew 24:15-22
15. WHEN YE THEREFORE SHALL SEE THE ABOMINATION
OF DESOLATION, SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET,
STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE, (WHOSO READETH, LET HIM
UNDERSTAND:)
The Abomination of Desolation is a Jewish expression meaning
abominable or hateful destroyer. The gentiles themselves were
an abomination to the Jews. Acts 10 28. The Abomination of
desolation refers to the Roman army (Luke 21:20). This was
SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET: Da.11:31 Da.9:27
All Jerusalem was considered holy; not only its temple Mt.14:5.
The meaning here is; When you see the Roman army encamped
about the Holy city; Christ's followers were to be aware that
Jerusalem's time was limited.

16. THEN LET THEM WHICH BE IN JUDAEA FLEE INTO THE
MOUNTAINS:
The presence of the Roman armies was the specific sign to cue
believers that the end of Jerusalem was nigh and that they should
seek safety. The whole of Judea would not be safe so the mountains
of Palestine were to be resorted to in danger.
1. LET HIM WHICH IS ON THE HOUSETOP NOT COME DOWN
  TO TAKE ANYTHING OUT OF HIS HOUSE:
18. NEITHER LET HIM WHICH IS IN THE FIELD RETURN BACK
TO TAKE HIS CLOTHES.
When the calamity came upon the city, those in Judea, or in the fields
should flee without any delay or encumbrance.
HISTORICAL NOTE: These directions were followed. It is said that
the Christians warned by these predictions, fled from the city to
Pella and other places beyond Jordan so that there is no evidence
that a single Christian perished in Jerusalem.
(Eusebius, Hist.Eccl.lib.3, chapter 6)
19. AND WOE TO THEM THAT ARE WITH CHILD, AND TO THEM
WHICH GIVE SUCK IN THOSE DAYS!
Pregnant women, and those with young children would be at a
great disadvantage and peril as they attempt to flee the oncoming
slaughter. Jesus warning in Luke 23:28-30 on his way to Calvary
fits here:
Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves,
and for your children. For behold, the days are coming, in the which
they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never
bare, and the paps which never gave suck. Then shall they begin
to say to the mountains, Fall on us: and to the hills, Cover us:
20. BUT PRAY YE THAT YOUR FLIGHT BE NOT IN WINTER,
NEITHER ON THE SABBATH DAY:
The destruction would come, but it was advisable to pray for a
mitigation of the circumstances. Winter's cold would reduce
the possibility of escape and survival. If the flight was on a Sabbath,
Jews were not by tradition to travel over 2000 cubits (nearly a mile)
and they would therefore not get out of the range of danger. The
gates of the city were also closed on the Sabbath preventing escape.
21. FOR THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH
AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD
TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE.
The word tribulation means calamity or suffering. Lu.21:24
specifies the nature of this suffering. Josephus uses almost
the very words of the Saviour. "All the calamities says he, which
had befallen any nation from the beginning of the world, were but
small in comparison to those suffered by the Jews.
(Jewish Wars, b.i. preface, p.4)
The carnage of the siege, which lasted five months, was horrible beyond belief. Thousands died of starvation. When the Romans finally broke into the city, the sight of so many corpses shocked even hardened soldiers. The slaughter of the city’s citizens was so terrible that fires were extinguished by the profusion of blood (Josephus, Wars 6.8.5).
Josephus records that 1,100,000 Jews were killed in Jerusalem, and that some 97,000 others were taken as slaves into captivity. It has been estimated that some 1,337,490 Jews in Jerusalem (and in the regions adjacent to Judaea) died — by famine, by the sword, by burning, and by crucifixion (Wars 6.9.3-4).
Some scholars believe that even these figures are too conservative. In fact, Josephus himself expressed the view that the suffering of this holocaust exceeded anything known to man previously (Wars, Preface, 4; 9.4).
THEY SHALL FALL BY THE EDGE OF THE SWORD. Lu.21:24
Josephus says that the whole city ran with blood and that during
the siege not fewer than eleven hundred thousand perished.
In all, one million, three hundred and fifty thousand were put to
death by the Romans. So many were crucified that they ran out
of crosses for the bodies. So terrible was their imprecation
fulfilled - His blood be on us and our children.
Da.12:1 time of trouble at end as never before
Mt.21:43 kingdom taken away Mat 23:35-58
22. AND EXCEPT THOSE DAYS SHOULD BE SHORTENED,
THERE SHOULD NO FLESH BE SAVED: BUT FOR THE ELECT'S
SAKE THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED.
Comment: If the calamities of the siege, persecution and war
did not come to an abrupt end, all the inhabitants of Judea,
including believers who had escaped to other regions would be
destroyed. But for the sake of the elect. Elect = those chosen to
salvation through sanctification of spirit and belief in the truth.
(I Peter 1:2) those days leading to the fall of Jerusalem would
be reduced. Titus himself, Josephus tells us, contrary to his
original intention, pressed the siege and took the city by storm
shortening the the time originally planned to reduce the city by
continuing the famine.
Vanderhoven7
The following is an excerpt from The Watchtower of May 1, 1999 (p. 11,12) which contains some elements of sound interpretation.
In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!

- - - - - - -
But the the WT proposes a dual fulfillment in our day and age. But this is impossible because:
these buildings are already destroyed and have been since 70 AD.

the Jews are not to be led captive into all
nations again during or after a future tribulation.

Matt.24:21 precludes dual fulfillment.
Finkelstein

Ancient mythology as what can be read in the bible is fiction expressed upon its own original intent and purpose by the men who scribed those writings.
Modern day religoius charlatans have no understanding of this concept, they are more endeavored to promote these writings as fact or non-fiction with an engaging intent of fear mongering to attract attention to the literature they are selling or proliferating. ..... ie. the WTS/JWS
kairos

The start of the first Gulf War.
Bush 1 was talking about "peace n' security"©.
I was baptized in 1989 at 18 years old. < Totally duped >
anointed1

With NATO leaders speaking about a “resurgent Russia” Cold War is back (Daniel 11:40-45 to 12:1) which would ultimately slide into a hot war in which one of them would meet with its SUDDEN destruction—as though happened in “one day” (Revelation 18:8), or in “one hour.” (Revelation 18:2, 3, 10, 19) Such a swift destruction of a Super Power is now possible with the use of ultra modern EMP (Electro Magnetic Pulse) weapon which deadens all weapons of the target country leaving it in absolute black-out with its no electronic gadgets working! “Then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now … If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive.” (Mathew 24:21, 22) If Babylon the Great is a political entity, then everything makes sense—such a chain of events is possible!
Vidqun

I believe for God to be fair there must be a literal fulfillment of Rev. 11. When the two witness-prophets appear on the scene, they will make things clear. Their ministry will last 3 1/2 years, long enough for all to make up their minds as to which way they want to go.
pale.emperor

I strongly believed that i would go to prison one day for being a JW, maybe even a concentration camp in the future. And i couldn't wait! The opportunity to be persecuted in the name of Jah and prove my worthiness. But of course looking back i can see that it was a way of me saying "i dont feel good enough i'll never be good enough. Maybe if i die a horrible death through starvation, torture and genocide they'll see maybe i am good enough".
And after all that? Maybe... just maybe... you'd get through to the new system. But dont count on it.
Half banana

Ignore the lot of it! It's all a complete waste of time and effort.
You will be none the wiser for believing in 'holy' writings which were only propaganda in the first place.
Once you leave the JW cult you never again need to speculate on the meaning of the Bible...it is a whole lot better to learn about useful things instead.
And Vanderhoven, don't believe Eusebius either...he was a lying toad with everything to gain by writing a revisionist history of Christianity to favour his patrons.
However I agree that the words put into Jesus' mouth refer only to those days with no sense of it being an antitype, but as a prophetic marvel, a commentary used by the early Jesus-cult writers wishing appear authoritative. After all Jerusalem's fall was bound to happen.
The words foretell that the stars will fall from the skies...now there's hyperbole if you like or crass ignorance would be another way of putting it! But since prayer will apparently avert the disaster from happening in winter (Mar13:18,19) it doesn't sound as if the writers really know what they are talking about........like most of the Bible.

Speculation about GT

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