1919 2013 2020 and the Slave

by Jerryh 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  Earnest

  Listener : Part of the FDS have already gone to heaven, according to their teachings, that includes Rutherford, Knorr and Franz. What happened to their appointment?

  The faithful and discreet slave is "a composite slave - a group working together as one body" (2012 Annual Meeting Report) whose members are, individually, domestics just like all the rest of Jesus' genuine followers (The Watchtower of July 2013, "Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?", para.13).

  So, whether members of the "faithful and discreet slave" leave the group as a result of death or any other cause, they relinquish their appointment to the body.

  The question arises, then, if they relinquish their appointment as part of the "faithful and discreet slave" at death, how can they get their appointment "over all his belongings" when they are resurrected to heavenly life during the great tribulation (as at death they lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body)? The only answer I can see is that they simply share the reward of all anointed followers (see para.19 of the 2013 Watchtower referred to above) but that is not particularly satisfying as exegesis.

  I hope I haven't lost you, Jerryh, but their adjustment in understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" has created as many questions as it resolved,
  
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  Jerryh

  Nah i'm good but do you have a reference for this?

  at death they lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body)?
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  Longlivetherenegades

  Earnest: Jehovah's Witnesses do not identify these slaves with the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45-47, and it can be seen when reading the verses prior to vs 45 (vss 32-44) that they refer to the coming (not going) of the Son of Man.

  LLTR: Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!

  A closer at on coming, signifying his return which still shows before he left, the slaves had been given a task.

  So according to this watchtower....... In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.w130715

  They are saying ON COMING the master the finds Russell and his cohorts as that faithful slave appointed to feed his domestics but still to be appointed over all his belongings

  The problem here is ON COMING, the initial task was given when he LEAVES, when the master returns, he confirms is diligence to initial task and REWARDS the slave with appointment all over belongings just like the other illustrations
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  waton

  wt writers follow "the Lord" very closely, when he sits down on the right hand, , then stands up, then sits down again for judgement.

  Is it really possible to read that fine a distinction into the phases of the F& DS, parable, or allegory that in mho, only by scribal choice ended up among the 10 virgins and the sheep and goats.?
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  Vanderhoven7

  What is the current teaching re 2018?

  The anointed dead were raised to heavenly life in the spring and the churches of Christendom were rejected in the fall of 2018. Is this still current Watchtower mythology?
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  waton

  this still current Watchtower mythology? VdH

  Have not read anything to the contrary,

  The heavens were cleansed in the struggle starting in 1914, and once clear, heavenly resurrection started.
  Peter, Paul and Mary, helping to formulate the wt campaign:

  " The world has ended. - Millions now living will never die".

  Now waiting for the remnant of the anointed generation to join them, battle, ready, dressed as a bride, not later then 2075.
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  Earnest

  Jerryh : do you have a reference for [stating] "at death they lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body"

  I really based that on the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses that the "faithful and discreet slave" only exists as a composite group while the individual members are part of the anointed "domestics" (who are also fed spiritually by the slave).

  So, if you are no longer a part of that composite group [of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food], ipso facto you lose membership of the "faithful and discreet slave" body.

  But I had a look around in the literature and there are many places where it specifies that the "faithful and discreet slave" is made up of anointed Christians on earth. (Watchtower 02/01/75 p.77 para.4; 05/15/95 p.16 para.2; 03/15/02 p.14 para.4; 03/01/04 p.10 para.9; 11/01/07 p.30 para.12; 02/15/09 p.24 para.2; 06/15/09 p.22 para.11; 10/15/09 p.15 para.14; "Organized to do Jehovah's Will", 2019, pp.17-23 para.4).

  As an example, the 1975 Watchtower referred to above says :
  

  As a congregation, body or group, the anointed, spirit-begotten brothers of Jesus Christ, while on earth, are called his “faithful and discreet slave,” or servant.

  The only place I could find that suggested the "faithful and discreet slave" retained membership after death was a commentary on Revelation published in 1918 entitled The Finished Mystery. In commenting on Revelation 8:3 it says:

  And another angel. - Not the "voice of the Lord," mentioned in the preceding chapter, but the corporate body - the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which Pastor Russell formed to finish his work. This verse shows that, though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the Harvest work.

  However, that idea didn't retain currency and hasn't been held by Jehovah's Witnesses for at least ninety years.
  
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  Earnest

  Longlivetherenegades : The problem here is ON COMING, the initial task was given when he LEAVES, when the master returns, he confirms is diligence to initial task and REWARDS the slave with appointment all over belongings just like the other illustrations

  Thanks for explaining it clearer. I understand where you are coming from.

  Matthew 24:45 says "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"

  The slave was only given the task to give the domestics their food at the proper time when the master appointed him over the domestics. That wasn't when he left in 33 C.E., it was at the time of his parousia in 1914, with the appointment happening in 1919 after the inspection of the temple.

  Then, having given the slave the task to feed the domestics in 1919, vs 46 says the slave is happy if the master, on arriving (during the great tribulation), finds him doing so. He then appoints him over all his belongings.
  
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  Earnest

  Vanderhoven7 : What is the current teaching re 2018?

  Should that be 1918?

  Vanderhoven7 : The anointed dead were raised to heavenly life in the spring and the churches of Christendom were rejected in the fall of [1918]

  No. That is no longer current Watchtower understanding.There is a full discussion in the Watchtower of January 1, 2007 which says (in part):

  Could it, then, be reasoned that ...the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began ... in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures. ... God’s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ’s presence.

  As regards the rejection of the churches of Christendom, Jesus inspected and cleansed the temple between 1914 and the beginning of 1919. So it was only in 1919 that it became evident Babylon the Great had fallen. (See Watchtower March 2016 and Watchtower July 15, 2013).