I totally agree with the earlier posters who all said that it is not just the WT society it happens in all religions and organizations. I think that problem with ex-jws and opposers of the WT society is that they only focus on the WT as the "big" bad wolf and condone and accept any kind of immoral behavior if it is in the churches. The same kind of scenario reminds me of how many "white" racist people have towards black and hispanics a crime is committed they scream and shout to punish the minority but when the same crime is committed by "white" people they have nothing to say. This is a sick, distorted perspection of human behavior. As long as one of our own does it it is ok but when an outsider does it we want them fried and punished. Bad conduct should not be accepted no matter who does it. When those 4 white cops beat Rodney King many of my "white" co-workers said he got what he deserved, but when Reginal Denny(a white motorist) was beat severely by 4 black guys during the riot those same white co-workers of mine were screaming and shouting to punish the black guys. Religious prejudice is the same like racial prejudice it is ugly and does not deserve to be listened to. I think many posters on this site and others are prejudice against the WT.
Who's To Blame For The Child Abuse Problem?
by Englishman 68 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
-
-
waiting
Hello Amac,
Just a side thought here........if we take the society of local jw's - their mentality, social structure within jw's and with worldly people ..........and compare them with a Baptist/Methodist/whatever......what's just ONE fundamental difference would we find pertaining to the care of children?
1. Other churches usually have day cares, etc., so children can be among their peers. Mothers get a break from their darlings. Additionally, mothers aren't automatically lower class, with a disproportionately high percentage of single mothers/grandmothers bringing up kids alone.
Jehovah's Witnesses have church meetings and field service. They can be with their peers - but aren't suppose to play during this time. Restless children, little interaction with other kids, mothers who are left to teach/entertain/control/support entire groups of kids.
Why's this important? Because there's so many single women in the org.....with many children. Children they can't leave....but must be with them, every meeting, every time in field service, every assembly. The women are to provide mother & father image for the kids. However, women are second class - they want (particularily sons) to have a good father image to mold that child. It's a stronger urge than worldly women, imo, because we know our children's "lives depend upon they staying in The Truth."
Then steps in the brother (and he may not be in all that good standing....just a man) who takes an interest in your child. Will go to the door with him, help him with scriptures, help him to read. In most cases........the mother will be delighted for the help. Btw, scenario works just as well if it's a young woman, particularily with your daughter or younger kids. In fact, he offers to take your son out in field service with a group of other brothers....and he'll help out by coming to your house & picking up your son - and bringing him home...."oh, btw, ok if we stop off for a burger?" It could be totally innocent...or not. Who would know?
JW's are taught that particularily if a man is a pioneer, ms, elder.......he is a spiritural person. The WTBTS has gone back to the teaching that elders do, indeed, have Jehovah's spirit....as opposed to ordinary brothers and sisters. We've been counseled for decades to take every problem to the elders.....they will help us.
Well, our children are our problem.....we want the best for them - but we don't have the ability, being single jw women (or married to non-believers). We're just "a large army" of women.
This is just a sideline situation. Now add in the Two Witness Bible Law. Now add in that Jehovah's Witnesses MUST protect God's reputation....and God's religion is a clean, upright, religion. Now add in that we've always preached that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cleaner, better, religion that any in the world. Of course, now jw's say they're no worse than any other religion. Mere technicality.
Now add in that even if a man is found guilty of child abuse by elders.......the parent & child must NEVER speak about it to anyone.....less they be brought up on charges of slander...which is a disfellowshipping sin, as we all very well know.
And now add in the WTBTS has a file of what, 23,000 child molesters located in NY?
And there's more reasons, some even more important than the ones I've given. I don't think Bill Bowen is off the mark. The social structure & teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses makes them more vulnerable to child molestation than some other organizations - but they're definitely not alone.
I would think that a child molester would find the jw's attractive....just like the Boy Scouts, Catholic Church, etc. Real attractive if one thinks about the advantages.
waiting
-
Englishman
Waiting,
Bloody hell! It's a disaster just waiting to happen! I can just imagine those single lassies tearing their hair out over some spikey 5 year old and being grateful for a male figures intercedence.
Englishman.
-
amac
Waiting - I think you think too much.
Any close knit social group will have many of the same characteristics you describe. Single mothers are struggling in every socio-economic class, and they are often happy to receive help, especially from someone they think might be a good male role model (an uncle, boy scout leader, preacher, elder, neighbor, hobby club, coach, etc.) They will accept help from people they trust. Unfortunately, most molestations happen by people you trust. I don't think the WT is any different than any other "club" when it comes to this.
I'm not sure what the beginnning of your post is getting at. Are you saying if the WT had day care, all the single mothers would have less stress and would be better able to spot a molester? I think that is a stretch. Again, molesters are often people you trust. The only fault I can see in the WT is that they are very close knit socially and single mothers will have more people they "trust" then if they are on their own. There are many pros to this, but one of the cons would be, the more people you know, the more chance one of them might be really bad.
Now add in that even if a man is found guilty of child abuse by elders.......the parent & child must NEVER speak about it to anyone.....less they be brought up on charges of slander...
I, personally, have found this NOT to be true. I have talked to many people about an ACCUSED molester in a number of congos, including elders and have never been told to keep quiet. Of course, I did not judge the man as guilty in my discussion of it as he is still awaiting trial, but EVERYONE knew that someone (and it was only one person) accused him of molestation and EVERYONE talked about it. I'm sure attitudes on this will vary from location to location.
In fact, I had to ask the elders to talk to a certain family that were going around telling everyone that he was innocent even though he has not faced trial yet. I told them that in effect they were calling the victim a liar and they should not be making those kind of judgements. The elders agreed.
And there's more reasons, some even more important than the ones I've given. I don't think Bill Bowen is off the mark.
I think Bill Bowen is WAY off mark with a term like "pedophile paradise." The term alone implies that pedophiles are living and practicing their perversions happily with no interference or worries. That is simply NOT true. Despite the WT SERIOUS FLAWS in handling pedophiles, it is far from a paradise for them.
I agree that a child molester might be attracted to the JWs. But for no other reason that they recognize the close knit relationships developed by the congregations and the many possibilities to exploit these. And I would change the "just like the Boy Scouts, Catholic, etc" to "just like any other religion are large social group." Calling the JWs a "Pedophile Paradise" is akin to calling the traditional family arrangement a "pedophile paradise." But, that's just my opinion.The social structure & teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses makes them more vulnerable to child molestation than some other organizations - but they're definitely not alone.
I would think that a child molester would find the jw's attractive....just like the Boy Scouts, Catholic Church, etc. Real attractive if one thinks about the advantages.
-
Odrade
Wow, waiting, that's a pretty good estimation of how it happens, IMO. The mothers DO just need a little time for themselves. I've seen many times where the single mother with son has a nice servant brother approach and offer to take the boy in service. The mother ALWAYS says yes. Only one time did I ever hear one say no, and she was not a single mother--she has a good husband. The other mothers are an easy situation for a molester on his mark to take advantage of. It would only be seen as being kind.
AMAC, I don't believe the Org is any different in the opportunities it presents to a pedophile, either. Any church, club, school could be seen as easy prey. The difference is in how the offender is dealt with. Waiting's remark about not speaking of the abuse or offense to anyone EVER is also on the mark. I don't know where this "many people" were allowed to talk about an accused, but I can tell you, it's exceedingly rare. NO ONE is allowed to talk about what happens behind the closed doors of a judicial committee. It's official policy. Not the accused, not the accuser, not the Committee. If you break that rule and tell, you will be disciplined. As well, I have sat through the talks where counsel is strongly given about gossip and slander in the congregation. I've also sat through the stupid "forgiveness" talk when the offender is welcomed back with open arms after their stint in jail.
Personally, I don't care for BB's term "pedophile paradise" either, but for different reason. The fact that the term is in use indicates there is an ongoing serious problem with protecting the so-called "privacy" of the molester. In not allowing his beastly actions to come out, the pedophile is able to not only save face, but if a sociopathic offender, manipulate things so he can easily offend again. I belief that just as registered sex offenders must notify the neighbors in the area that he lives, convicted offenders in the congregation should be noted publicly, so children can be protected. This should happen in the case of judicial committee "conviction," and especially in criminal court convictions.
Only then do I see any hope of coming out from under that label. Even the Catholic Church has begun to withdraw the umbrella of financial support and ecclesiastical privilege from offenders in its ranks. Can JWs, who claim to be Jehovah's pure, clean Organization do any less? To make that claim, while harboring that filth in secret is revolting beyond words.
Odrade
-
Odrade
Guest, you ask:
How does one identify a pedophile? If you can't identify a pedophile, unless you have a known history case of such an individual, you can't.
This is very critical, and part of the issue at hand. Personally, I think the problem is so many people have this "dirty old man" idea of pedophiles. The reason the crime is so heinous is the perpetrators usually seem so trustworthy. When things start surfacing, the victim, who already is in critical need of help, is often not believed, because everyone "knows" the character of the accused. Not surprisingly, it's easy to sweep the crime under the rug because the victim requires great strength and courage to continue to stand up against the seemingly "moral" abuser.
My friend who spoke out to the authorities is uncommonly stubborn and brave, plus she had the added incentive of protecting her baby sister. AND, there were people who believed her. I think this example was the exception, rather than the rule since the offenses came to light so dramatically. If it had ended in committee and no one ever found out, that would be more common. If you cut the story off before the point where he is prosecuted by civil authorities, then it would be typical of pedophiles who operate within the org.
The sooner everyone stops stereotyping molesters and their protecters, the sooner they can be exposed. The best way to identify molesters will always be to watch the actions of the children. If you see an outgoing child suddenly become very withdrawn, it should be a red flag. Night terrors, inappropriate aggression, a child who sexually precocious, all are strong indicators something is wrong. To assume an adult is safe because you think you know him, and he is nice is misguided and potentially dangerous.These are the best, most reliable ways to identify molesters.
-
Pork Chop
Francois I have studied the subject, extensively.
-
core
The best way to identify molesters will always be to watch the actions of the children. If you see an outgoing child suddenly become very withdrawn, it should be a red flag. Night terrors, inappropriate aggression, a child who sexually precocious, all are strong indicators something is wrong.
odrade
Excellent point which would make excellent material for the WT to expand on and publish so abuse can be dealt with
The only problem is that is this catches abuse as it happens (and yes can stop it then) but what I would like to know is how we couls stop abuse starting
What I am sure we all want is prevention not detection. Any ideas anyone?
-
amac
Odrade, thank you for the reply.
Any church, club, school could be seen as easy prey. The difference is in how the offender is dealt with.
I fully agree. My entry into this thread was replying to the suggestion that Farkel made that pedo's are attracted and join the JWs because it is a "pedophile paradise." My original point was that they may be attracted to the group of people, just like any other religion, but they would not learn of how judicial committees work and specific cases are handled until well after baptism. So I don't think that the way the WT mishandles pedos is an attraction for pedos to join the religion.
I don't know where this "many people" were allowed to talk about an accused, but I can tell you, it's exceedingly rare. NO ONE is allowed to talk about what happens behind the closed doors of a judicial committee. It's official policy.
To clarify, the accused was put in jail for a while pending trial (later released) and is being criminally charged, so it is a matter of public record and that is what was freely talked about. It went something like this..."Hey where's Bob? Oh, he's in jail for being a child molester. WHAT?!?! etc etc" -
Odrade
amac... thanks for the clarification. You're probably right, there isn't really anything more or less appealing about JW organization (to a newcomer) than any other group with lots of children. It would be the rare sociopath that would specifically target the witnesses for their secrecy.
something like this..."Hey where's Bob? Oh, he's in jail for being a child molester. WHAT?!?! etc etc"
and this makes more sense too. What really surprises me is that the congregation did not have a talk about "GOSSIP AND SLANDER." Your scenario is exactly what happened in my cong., and the brothers were hypervigilant to prevent gossip. Even though it was a matter of public record, we were counselled very strongly not to talk about it. No longer doubting you, just surprised, although I don't know why anything surprises me anymore.
Core... my own feeling is the only way to prevent abuse is from the child/parent end. Preventing the abuser in the first place would be nearly impossible, because the way the typical one operates is usually so subtle and sneaky at first... anyways, parents who ask questions and don't let their children go alone with brothers (or sisters) in the congregation, is probably the best defense. Of course this does nothing to protect the child whose own parent is the abuser...
Odrade