Grading of Disfellowshipping Offenses (page 2)

minimus

Most persons whether they are JW's or not make judgments. Some are fair and others aren't. I think very few would want to regularly associate with a thief-----because you could be the next victim. If a married couple is having domestic trouble, the last person to be invited to the jaccuzi party is your friend that's known for fooling around with those they're not supposed to fool with. If a person insists on blowing smoke in your face, and you aren't a smoker, you don't want to be around him......I think people are less tolerant of those that affect them in a negative way. That's all.

MrsQ

The adulters are shunned even here. Few would even admit to it.

I ADMIT IT! I COMMITTED ADULTURY!!!!

I wasn't DF'd though--I just never went back so they could DF me. That was kind of a kiss off to JW's and my a$$hole ex-husband all at once...

ADQ

Francois

Mrs Q, you've got my vote and support. I like your style.

blondie

After a batch of Bethelites were DF’d and booted in the mid 80’s, I overhead several elders expressing horror over it. They said it was because it was a "gross" sin as opposed to the other sins that lead to DFing. I looked it up in the old-fashioned way in the WT indexes and discovered that they were "grading" this sin as worse but going against the WTS written explanation.

Gross sins are sins the elders cannot overlook. They are required to look into it judicially. These are sins that would have lead to a death sentence in the nation of Israel.

My comment to them was, if homosexuality is a worse sin, then how does God make the punishment worse? Is it the sin against the holy spirit? No, they said. Does Jehovah kill them twice by resurrecting them and killing them again? No, they said with annoyance. "Then how is it worse, because all the following sins are considered "gross sins" too? Dead is dead, unless there is burning hell?!?

w95

1/1 p. 27

Hence, when a dedicated Christian commits gross sin, something more than personal confession to Jehovah is needed. The elders must take certain steps, since the cleanness or the peace of the congregation is threatened. (Matthew 18:15-17; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:9, 10)

1

Corinthians 5:9-11

9In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators , 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters . Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers , nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men , 10 nor thieves , nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.

w92 7/1 p. 18

Judicial action is necessary only if a gross sin has been committed that could lead to disfellowshipping. (Matthew 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:11) There must be a sound Scriptural basis for forming a judicial committee.

Other sins listed as gross by the WTS are spousal abuse, child sexual abuse, rape, stealing, lying, bestiality, slander, blasphemy, murder, spiritism, apostasy, gambling, fraud, smoking, fits of anger, willful nonsupport of family, unchristian employment, etc. According to the WTS those committing such things receive the same punishment if unrepentant, disfellowshipping and death if never reinstated.

So unofficially, JWs grade sins, but DF'ing is DFing. But I have seen a sister who was DF'd for adultery, not even be considered for reinstatement until 7 years went by and seen a brother, a confessed child abuser, reinstated in 8 months. So are sins graded?

Blondie (sorry if this was too long)

shamus

But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man

I am not considered a brother, so you can all hang around with me, ok?

iiz2cool

I haven't been out long enough, or met enough X-JW's to notice a trend, but I have noticed that some are more interested in scriptural debates than others. I noticed that some of these quickly grow impatient with those who aren't really into scriptural discussions. Personally, after 20 years of being a JW, I've had more than my fill of that sort of thing. I left over doctrinal issues as well as issues I had with the conduct of the society in certain matters.

Really, when you think about it, we're all out because of doctrinal issues. The issues could be about:

What constitutes morality, and where does personal freedom of choice enter the picture?

Is smoking REALLY unscriptural? This could be debated at great length.

Are blood transfusions unscriptural? This too can be debated endlessly.

Interpretation of scriptures is another big one. And the list could go on...

I don't feel any compulsion to convert the converted, or anyone else for that matter. But if someone has a question, or needs help, I'll do what I can. As far as I'm concerned, we've all done the right thing by leaving, regardless of how our exit came about.

JMHO

Walter

RAYZORBLADE

Hey, everyone: thanks!

I think most of you have added some stuff that I had not necessarily considered before, but in a comprehensive analogy, it all adds up.

I was more or less getting at, for example: OK, most of us, if not ALL of us are DF'd.

But those disfellowshipped for doctrine/scriptural apostacy, seem to still hold themselves up higher than those who were disfellowshipped for immorality etc. - get my drift. Even though the biblical apostates, sactimonious even after being disfellowshipped: still play the JW game, post DF. (Not all of them, but a majority in my experience)

The fun group: all others (immoral lot that you are: bless yer hearts) seem to accept each other relatively without judgement, even being A-OK with the bible thumpin' ex-JW wannabees.

Oh well. It's just something I have been observing in-person, and on various forums.

I like you fornicators. Heaps of fun, packs of smokes, bottles of fermented spirits (best kind) and debauchery, all combined into one.

Way more fun!

ballistic

When I read your post, I couldn't tell if you meant the judicial elders have a grading system, or you were treated differently by ex-witnesses according to your "sins", as you seem to hint at both.

But I will say there is normally more to poeples stories than the black and white of the judicial comittee. That is one of the reasons why disfellowshipping is so cruel. There is no accounting for peoples circumstances (even if they say there are some allowed emittigating circumstances in the flock book). The judicial comittee leaves you branded a certain way and that is it. Would anyone here judge someone like myself without hearing the full story?

Euphemism

Gross sins are sins the elders cannot overlook. They are required to look into it judicially. These are sins that would have lead to a death sentence in the nation of Israel.

You know, that was one of the things that bothered me, even when I was a witness.

Adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, idolatry... yes, those were capital offenses in the nation of Israel. But fornication and theft were not. Drunkenness wasn't even a crime at all! But in the Society, those were all equal, all d/fing offenses. In a certain sense, it was less merciful than the Mosaic law... because any serious offense carried a spiritual death sentence!

Guest 77

iiz2cool, you said, "I don't feel any compulsion to convert the converted or anyone else for that matter. But if someone has a question, or needs help, I'll do what I can". Two 's up!

Guest 77

Grading of Disfellowshipping Offenses

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