Are Jehovah's Witnesses Saved by Grace...Undeserved Kindness?

by zophar 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • zophar
    zophar

    There was a time that one could, if they dug deep enough, come up with the answer that JW’s teach that one is “Saved” by grace or the NWT preferred “undeserved kindness.” For instance, in the Reasoning Book p. 360 under the heading “Salvation” there is a sub-heading under the section, “If someone says”: ‘Are you saved?’ Here is what it says you could say if someone asks, “Are You Saved?’ You might reply: ‘So far, I am.’…….

    The conclusion being, you are saved right now. And yes, you need to remain faithful, but you are right now in a saved state. I remember giving the talk, “Are You Marked For Survival?” and I would ask the audience, “Do you think you are saved?” Interestingly, almost no one would raise their hands. The ones who DID raise their hands were usually the more studious witnesses. Even though the Reasoning book clears says, “so far, I am.” The majority just couldn’t bring themselves to acknowledge that. Why do you think that is? Do Jehovah’s Witnesses really believe that Jesus paid the price of sin and that they can be saved or declared righteous by God?

    I was so happy to be able to show that, yes Jehovah’s Witnesses teach you are saved. I would use three lines of reasoning to come to that conclusion.

    1.) The parable of the sheep and goats

    2.) The “mark” one receives in the book of Ezekiel

    3.) Your name is written in the book of life.

    Now of course that is all falling apart. First came the adjustment on the sheep and goats parable. This has been extensively commented on elsewhere on this board, and thank you for that. But briefly, JW’s used to teach that one is judged as a “sheep” right now, on this side of the Great Tribulation. Now you are not marked as a sheep just yet. No, you must await the time when Jesus returns to render judgment and he will determine if you are to be saved. So…..on that one point, you are not saved yet. You have to keep working for your salvation! They use the Scripture at Philippians 2:12, “keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” So, Point 1 from above, Jesus ransom sacrifice did not save you, at least not yet.

    Secondly, “the mark” of Ezekiel 9:4. “Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”

    The Public Talk: “Are You Marked for Survival?” Outline number 34 is all about that “Mark” and how and when you get this mark of survival. In that outline it states: “The mark is evidence that one is dedicated, baptized Witness of God has a Christlike personality.” So the thinking was, once dedication is made to God, you put on the “new personality,” and get baptized……NOW you are saved. But, NOPE, hold on a minute, we got that one wrong. You do not get the Mark on this side of the Great Tribulation. The WT 6-15-16 says, “The great crowd will receive their mark when they are judged as sheep during the great tribulation.” So, on Point 2, you are not saved by grace yet, not until the start of the Great Tribulation.

    So, what about Point 3? I also used to give Public Talk number 55: “What Kind of Name Are You Making With God? The last subheading is: Is Your Name In the Scroll of Life?

    The outline states: “From time of Abel, founding of world of mankind, Jehovah has been writing names in “the scroll of life” (Re 17:8) It refers back to Insight Book Vol 2 p 468. The outline goes on to state: “we can get our names inscribed in that book even now.” Of course, the outline reminds us that the name is not indelibly inscribed yet. It can be removed at any time.

    Now, I haven’t seen any changes to this name in the book of life teaching yet. But, is that the only reference we can use to show that, right now one is saved by grace or undeserved kindness?

    How long will it be before the GB reviews this teaching? Is it this persistent thinking that you have to earn it, have to keep up that meeting attendance, field service, donations etc. if you want to be saved? It would seem so. In other words, when it comes to the matter of “Salvation” Jesus death did not put me in a saved condition with God. I have to somehow wait and see. And, make sure you keep working in the meantime to guarantee your salvation. How is this saved by “undeserved kindness” or ”grace” and not a matter of working for your salvation and earning it based on your works? I guess time will tell what the future “light” will reveal on the matter.

    Of course, I realize this is not a big deal to those of you who are not Bible believers or those who do not identify themselves as Christian. This post is addressed primarily to those who still have a semblance of faith and are hoping for changes to JW doctrine that aligns more with what your conscience tells you is right. Things such as judicial actions etc.

    At least some food for thought.

  • nowwhat?
    nowwhat?
    you need to be a christian follower of christ. so no. jw's are not saved.
  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Ephesians 2:8,9

    ''It is by grace you are saved'', then it goes on to say not by works which no one can boast.

    The NWT has changed the term ''grace'' to undeserved kindness and twisted the last part of the verse about works to mean that faith without works is 'dead'.

    A prime example how the WT changes their own Bible to fit their own teachings.

    Christ's sacrifice to mankind is a 'free gift' as a Ransom sacrifice. He's already paid back man's acquired 'sin'. 'Grace' is a free gift, contrary to the WBTS.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    Its clear they teach only they the anointed are saved all others must be a loyal part of their organization to get saved. There are plenty of wt articles that state this.
  • James Mixon
    James Mixon

    Grace_ God giving us what we don't deserve.

    Underserved Kindness---God not giving us what is deserved.

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    They love to say they are saved by undeserved kindness but then as quickly as they can they flip to James and say but... we need to do these works.

    Basically all the parts of the memorial talk that aren't about not partaking are about undeserved kindness being earned.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    "Are you saved?"

    Well, that's up to Satan and His Demons. Without them, there really is no point in it, since they are the ones trying to fight for freedom and a life that isn't mere slavery.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    There is a distinction between grace and mercy. Grace is getting what you don't deserve; mercy is not getting what you do deserve.

    Salvation by grace alone, by faith alone, by Christ alone.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    JWs are saved by following the GB and tending to their needs.

    When they're naked, JWs clothe them; when they're hungry, JWs offer them food; when they're thirsty JWs give them water ...

    I need to take a shower.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    ''Underserved Kindness---God not giving us what is deserved.''

    100% agreed. That's what JW's are told, and that's how they are supposed to feel, by being 'unworthy', lowly, piss-ons.

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