Faith, where now?

by Theburstbubble 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • David_Jay
    David_Jay

    Cofty has raised a very important point.

    The "humble Bible study" of Russell and his companions was flawed from the start. Like Mormonism, which is a religion that sees writings as the starting point and measure for Christianity, Russell was influenced by Adventism's similar view of religious revelation.

    Christianity (and its father religion Judaism) is not based on writings. Christianity produced writings. The books that became the New Testament were not the basis for its religious doctrines but selected due to their use in liturgical worship over the first 350 years of Christianity's existence.

    The Christian canon developed because of Marcion of Sinope, a bishop that turned to Gnosticism, who taught that holy writ was the ultimate form of spiritual enlightenment or revelation and thus the only true measure of Christian doctrine. His canon, limited to a few of Paul's epistles, an edited-down version of Luke, and a rejection of the entire library of Hebrew works, moved Christian bishops to use their authority to set a standard for books that aligned with official use. The process would not be completed until the 4th century.

    Judaism is (allegedly) based on a series of theophanies given to the patriarchs, to Moses, and the Great Theophany at Sinai, or so the claim is made. The Jews later composed the books based on the religious interpretation of their own history (a work that did not take shape until after the Babylonian exile ended).

    Christianity originated in a similar manner. Based on a series of epiphanies based on the identity of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christian movement was born. Like Judaism before it, Christianity was not based on writings, rather it produced writings. Christianity, according to its own historical claim, is based on Jesus being the ultimate and final revelation in God, not the Scriptures. As so-called religious "truth" was found in the people of Israel, Christian "truth" was deposited in the community or "church" of Christian believers.

    The Bible is merely a product of these movements, considered inspired and a revelation in and of themselves, true, but a testimony to something greater nevertheless. Russell's mistake was that of Joseph Smith. They, like Marcion of Sinope, believed and advocated the Gnostic teaching that the ultimate revelation of truth was found in the written word of religious movements, and not anywhere else in the community of believers that originally produced them.

    Limiting themselves to the scope of what is composed on paper, all three men came up with odd and "unique" doctrines contrary to those taught by the communities that composed the texts. Without noting a deposit of faith that consists of both theological practice and written works, and accepting only the written texts, peculiar religions resulted. (In Smith's case he went one step further and claimed that an additional written text was also necessary.)

    Limiting oneself to the Bible independent of the religions, cultures, peoples and theology that composed them is dangerous. It would be like taking the writings of the Dalai Lama and following them but rejecting his religion. It would be like basing a religion on Hubbard's "Dianetics" but claiming that Scientology did not have to be studied or followed. That is absurd, but it is what Russell did when studying the Bible and claiming that the Christianity that composed it and canonized it should be rejected, to curse the religion but praise its product, its book.

    One does not have to be a theist to see the insanity of following the Gnostic rule that ultimate truth is found only in the written texts of a religion, but not in the religion itself. If the religion is false then its writings can't be true, especially when the religion came first and produced the writings, using its own authority to canonize them.

  • Captain Schmideo2
    Captain Schmideo2

    David_Jay-
    Do you mean to say that the 1st century Christians didn't go around door to door with portable scrolls?



  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    I guess you need to go where you feel welcome and safe, and feel like you matter. Personally, if I get out of the JW-cult, I could never set foot in an Xian establishment.

    I would rather be alone forever, than to be part of an organized religion where ignoring reason is considered a strength.

    My next "religion" will involve a sweet girl with tattoos and some type of motorcycle, and lots of sex. Actually, I'll probably just stay home.....

    DD

  • OutsiderLookingIn
    OutsiderLookingIn
    So for the first time ever I went to a church service at my local church (COE) and I have to say it was awful! It was just like a ritual. The vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him. In between were prayers, hymns etc. This went on for an hour. It was totally unfeeling and I'm not sure how people even learn about the bible at such places.

    Hi burstbubble, what day did you attend the service? I've never been to a Sunday WT service so I don't know how that compares. But the Sunday service of most churches is a worship service so there would be songs/hymns, liturgical or scripture readings, then a sermon. Even then, there are different worship styles depending on the church you attend so maybe the one you attended was more subdued. Many churches have a midweek Bible study which is typically smaller and will go into more extended discussion of an passage of scripture, not a hopscotch of verses.

    Keep trying. I certainly didn't find my church on the first try. Even after I went, I alternated with other places just to make sure. It's worth the effort. Definitely take your time to investigate, make sure you're comfortable and that what they're saying is scripturally sound. Hope that helps :)

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    DavidJay,

    Theburstbubble started this thread going on a journey to find something. You have high jacked the thread to preach. Okay other posters are asking you questions but Theburstbubble is not interested in what you have to say.

    We know what you believe, let Theburstbubble find out what he / she believes

    Kate xx

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann
    The Catholic faith is almost independent of the Bible. The Bible is a by-product of their faith. They made the Bible and not the opposite.
  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    But, I like the concept of God. I like the values of the bible. Yes, I understand it could all be a huge fairytale but so what if it is?

    Hi the Burstbubble. I understand the need to have values and to live ethically. I also like the idea that there is something bigger than my tiny little life. Like you I couldn't find the answers in a church. The ritual left me cold and was a bit freaky and robotic.

    I do think we need to find our own answers. Personally I don't want to go somewhere and be told they have all the answers. I just wouldn't trust that would you? Why don't you do your own research, just google whatever interests you or go to a library or bookshop and browse the religion, philosophy and science sections and whatever else you like.

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