Jgnat posted this in one of Punky's posts. Third century.
Why is Jesus portrayed as a horse, does anyone know please?
Intriguing....
Jesus is a horse?
by Diogenesister 12 Replies latest watchtower bible
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FFGhost
IIRC, it is 3rd century graffiti, intended as an insult to Christians. It shows the Christian God (Jesus) portrayed as a donkey nailed to a cross.
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jhine
So does that mean that in the 200s AD it was widely acknowledged that Christ died on a cross ? Hmmm
Jan
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carla
It is called The Alexamenos graffito, it is basically graffiti mocking Christianity and in particular a person named Alexamenos. Here is more info and also other places on the internet- https://crip-power.com/alexamenos-graffiti-54/
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pistolpete
jhine
So does that mean that in the 200s AD it was widely acknowledged that Christ died on a cross ?
All the historical evidence points to Jesus dying on a cross.
The reason Jws believe it was a stake is because they refuse to LOOK at the evidence.
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jhine
Pistol that's what l was thinking . Maybe we should all keep a copy of the cartoon to show JWs .
Jan
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WokenfromJWcult
I think anything that main stream Christianity uses, the JW,s try to do just the opposite, to cause controversy and show there is a difference between them and the 4000 other religions, even if they are proven wrong. A parallel example is Joe Biden trying to do just the opposite of Trump, and failing miserably.
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Earnest
It is natural to assume that the Alexamenos graffito is depicting the crucifixion of Christ because we are so accustomed to seeing depictions of the crucifixion of Christ. But in the second and third century that was not the case. For example, in Polybius' Histories, Book 8, chapter 23 it recounts what happened to Achaeus after he was captured by Antiochus :
However the council met, and a long debate ensued as to what punishment they were to inflict upon Achaeus. Finally, it was resolved that his extremities should be cut off, his head severed from his body and sewn up in the skin of an ass, and his body impaled.
So, who might have been depicted in the Alexamenos graffito? John Henry Middleton wrote in Remains of Ancient Rome, Vol.1, 1892, pp.208, 209 :
One of the most interesting things about this building is the large number of graffiti, or incised inscriptions, which are deeply cut into the plaster. One of these is the rude drawing of a crucified man with the head of an ass or jackal, and a standing figure, apparently in act of adoration, with the rudely scratched inscription, "Alexamenos worships God." This is usually taken to be a caricature of the crucified Christ, but is more probably a scene of Gnostic worship, representing the Egyptian god Anubis. A similar device occurs on certain late Gnostic gems of Egyptian origin.
A German philologist, Richard Wünsch, focused on the Y traced on the right of the crucifix and which has been found on some of the tablets dedicated to the god Set. He concluded that Alexamenos belonged to the sect of the Sethiani. He writes in his book Sethian Curse from Rome, 1898, p.112
[That this is] a symbol from the thought circles of the Sethian Gnosis, is proven by this: to the right of the donkey's head of the Crucified One there is a Y that has not yet been interpreted; it is the same Y that is found on our tablets to the right of the donkey's head of Typhon-Seth and, as stated above, indicates his power over the ways of the underworld.
So, in 2nd/3rd century Rome there were many sects and this crucifixion could have related to several of them. But could it have related to Christianity, as many believe? Perhaps, but there are some problems. There are no depictions of the cross which are clearly Christian elsewhere at this time, and the adulation of the cross only came centuries later. Minucius Felix, who wrote in the latter part of the second century, wrote in the dialogue of Octavius "Crosses, moreover, we [christians] neither worship nor wish for. You [pagans], indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods." That seems the more likely truth of the inscription.
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carla
Long but good read from -https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/cross-or-stake.php
The Romans choice of using a cross over a stake was apparently due to the cross being able to extend the time it takes a person to die. By staying alive for hours or days the crucified person served as a warning example to others. The site centuryone.org/crucifixion2.html (February 15 2006) looks at some of these issues. Quoting research contained at F.T. Zugibe, 1984 Death by Crucifixion, Canadian Society of Forensic Science 17(1):1-13.6 it shows that on a cross, rather than a rapid death from asphyxiation death it can take hours or days to die from hypovolemic shock. On the other hand, death on a stake is rapid. Summarising research by P. Barbet 1953 Les Cinq Plaies du Christ 2nd ed. Paris: Procure du Carmel de l' Action de Graces;
"Eye Witness accounts by prisoners of war in Dacchu during WWII reported that victims suspended from beams by their wrist, which were tied, expired within ten minutes if their feet were weighted or tied down and within one hour if their feet were unweighted and the victim was able to raise and lower himself to permit respiration. Death in this manner, which is one form of crucifixion, was the result of suffocation."