Recently Bret Weinstein and Richard Dawkins sat down for a debate.
In the following video, Weinstein talks about what can be done to address an error in Dawkins'
Selfish Gene theory in terms of the New Atheism's error and regarding religion as a mind virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm8FksjlJtM&t=1096s
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And a good follow up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR5yN2G4h54&t=904s
Overcoming our Evolutionary purpose in order to save mankind (A most interesting discussion)
by TerryWalstrom 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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TerryWalstrom
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Charles Gillette
There is a lot of food here to digest. Is he saying that a cultural belief system has a benefit to the believer and so is not a mind virus as Dawkins has concluded.
Yes evolution is true as the evidence proves. However, we should not be attacking believers cultural belief or religious institutions because evolution is true.
Don't be angry at religion,just keep showing the evidence concerning where evolution has come and is progressing to our future.
I agree that Dawkins has made an error that has effected the progress of evolution in his book for this generation and needs to be corrected.
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TerryWalstrom
(Evolution is change over time under pressure by proliferating one's own gametes. This impulse takes no higher notice of good, better, best for others.)
Dawkins won't concede that religious beliefs are part of the adaptation process of the evolutionary imperative.
Bret Weinstein views this as unfortunate because there are definite social benefits which accrue when people act ethically toward one another. (Even when based on imaginary traditions.)
Where is the hang-up?
Dawkins feels he must totally reject superstitious, non-factual premise on which religion is based and view ALL religious impulses as a virus of the mind amounting to insanity.
Weinstein sees Evolution as the "instinct" to overcome all competition in the pursuit of spreading one's genes. Humans have more potential than merely that and unless they get a handle on other ways of adapting the drive to view others as tribe / non-tribe, civilization will tear itself apart in pissing matches, political wars, and turf struggles. -
Vidiot
I find it somewhat ironic that certain religions have evolved to reject the idea that they evolved.
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Charles Gillette
However, has not religion for the most part been the catalyst for religious wars throughout history even as I write this question now?
While there is some benefit to a belief system to the individual it is off set by the horrors of wars that are still going on killing millions earth wide.
My God blesses my belief system over yours.
Evolution does not cause wars.Dawkins may have hit on something when he detests religions and their gods.
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cofty
Thank you for posting this Terry. I will watch the videos later.
My instincts are with Weinstein on this. It's a topic that Jonathan Haidt addresses in his book The Righteous Mind — Why Good People are Divided by Religion and Politics. Religion has been a powerful force for in-group cohesion. How we are ever going to replace it is a mystery.
Dawkins is mostly brilliant on Evolution and mostly facile on everything else.
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jp1692
CG: We should not be attacking believers [sic] cultural belief or religious institutions because evolution is true.
Yes, but: we should be attacking believer’s cultural beliefs and/or religious institutions when, and if, they are false and harmful because they are false and harmful!
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TerryWalstrom
Religion is just one of the many behaviors which enable people to adapt to the pressures and dangers of this planet as a species which has survived so far by that very strategy.
It took me about a dozen years to get the anger out of my system. I was sold a Bill of Goods which did NOT work! I was ready to burn it all down.
To mend this world we need to be--not arsons--but firemen.
How can we persuade others the religious mindset is only a temporary strategy with a high cost in time and effort to maintain a sense of security?
Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.
Kindness, empathy, listening.
Let's face the fact our world has caught a really bad case of obsession with ideology.
So many arguments and shut-down, name calling and each side know they are right.
Kindness, empathy, listening is perhaps a better highway.
Becoming some kind of example means we have to convert ourselves first.
Alcoholics don't reform until they hit bottom.
Addicts are trying to ease the internal pain but the means they use is destroying them.
Until the religious person smashes into some kind of wall, some point of no return--they have no incentive to humble themselves.
Arguing doesn't work.
If a person who is religious is in a family and community of happiness--why would they change?
It is corny to say this but I believe it is true:
BECOME THE CHANGE you want to see in this world. -
Finkelstein
Religions become harmful and dangerous when they oppress knowledge.
.......like the JW religion.
There is only one true savior for humanity and that is knowledge.
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Finkelstein
Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson discuss religious beliefs, its virtues and its negative aspects.
