Update - Talk # 6 THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY AND YOU

by ttdtt 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ttdtt

  Instead of scraping this talk they updated it.

  So they still try and make this look like it happened, and that there is plenty of evidence.
  To do that they refer to the (w08 6/1 8) found at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008411

  The main evidence is that floods have happened in the past, including...

  Geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern United States believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area. One such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons. Similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.

  I could not find such an event, except for remembering one of those "disaster" shows on Discover about that. A giant tsunami long long ago.

  Notice there are NO references. Also NO note stating that those "100 ancient floods" happened over the course of thousands and thousands of years, not at the same time, thus proving nothing about a global flood.

  And what similar findings and what scientists think there was a global flood, and do they think it happened 4k years ago?

  TONS OF INGENUINE BS

  Here is a list of past ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatsunami#List_of_megatsunamis

  OH HERE IS THE NEW OUTLINE.

  
  
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  cofty

  Evidence exists that is consistent with the Flood account (1) Geologic evidence (2) Fossil evidence

  Bollocks
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  konceptual99

  Bollocks with a crusty topping of bullshite I would say Cofty.
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  konceptual99

  I wonder if the reference in the WT has some relationship to the Missoula Floods...?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods
  
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  dozy

  Sad to say , I remember giving this talk. I always tended to focus on the "bible says it's true so it must be true" angle and the principles and "modern day application" rather than focus on the story itself and the supposed geological , flood legends etc "evidence" as I always thought they sounded really dubious. If such a global catastrophic event really had occurred so recently - shouldn't there be vast amounts of evidence? What about all the animals only found in one place - lemurs in Madagascar , kangaroos , platypuses in Australia etc. It all sounded really unlikely.

  One of my workmates was a good friend and had a keen interest in science and found it very amusing that I ( as a supposedly intelligent guy ) believed in such nonsense and he used to wind me up a bit about JW stuff , in a kind way ( he was a Tottenham supporter so I could give as good as I got in return!) In the dying days of my JW life we were away overnight one time at a works seminar and over a pint ( or three ) we chatted about the flood and other things ( such as Adam & Eve etc ). He gave me an academic study into ice cores going back thousands of years that categorically showed there had been no such event.

  I finally realised ( what I guess I always had subconsciously realised ) that a global flood as described in the bible about 4,000 years ago was total garbage. I went home , took the outline and my notes from my public talks file ( which by then was rapidly becoming much slimmer ) and binned them and never gave the talk again.
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  ttdtt

  dozy - I think back at the stupid things I backed up in talks. All us exElders have done that.

  I remember when is was still under the spell, I knew enough that the flood could not be caused by rain. I found all kinds of research done by the Air Force on atmospheric studies. It had very specific info on how much water was in the air, how much could the atmosphere possibly hold... I did research on the atmosphere in general, and had a long debate with another elder that the waters had to come from underground (stupid as well - but I thought it was more likely).

  All his arguments about the Canopy (never mentioned or implied in the bible) and rain, were so easily dismissed but to no avail.

  The Spell is Strong!
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  konceptual99

  I used to give this talk and the Science and The Bible one as well. I fancied myself as someone who could easily reconcile the science with the biblical accounts.

  I remember also having a long conversation with a work mate about Adam and Eve and feeling very self-satisfied at how I had stood up for the Bible and used sound reasoning to bat away secular misconceptions.

  When I started looking critically at things it took no time at all for the veil to be lifted. What had seemed so correct to me suddenly became ridiculous. The realisation that I had been blindly buying into such nonsense made me feel so small and stupid.

  The relief when I stood down as an MS and never was asked to promote such nonsense again was huge.
• 

  WhatshallIcallmyself

  Hi,

  Not only is there no evidence for a global flood a few thousand years ago but there is actually evidence that there wasn't...

  1 - Contemporary societies of those times did not notice that this happened. That is a massive red flag to the claim of a worldwide event.

  2 - A global event like the one described in the flood story would leave traces that are obvious flood deposits all over the world. They would be very obvious and in your face, being so recent geologically speaking (consider the KT boundary deposits that show the global effects of the asteroid that most likely killed of the dinosaurs).

  3 - There isn't enough water on the planet and even if there were the amount of energy that would be released during such an event would vaporise all life on the planet (Did the ark have climate control??).

  As for the fossil record: There are events captured that indicate an animal, or groups of, died due to a flood/mudslide event. It is a stretch, though, to conclude "Therefore Noah's flood is true!". Also, the sizes of animals indicate that a rather long time would be need for the mineralisation process to have completed (i.e. fossilised). Also the rocks that house the fossils have been dated as being many millions of years old... Nothing in the fossil record indicates a global flood a few thousand years ago; unless you want to ignore reality and make a story up of course...

  Flood legends: They aren't all the same, are they...

  I think we can see why higher education is frowned upon in the "truth"...
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  betterdaze

  The lying pen of the scribes is at it again (Jeremiah 8:8).
  
  “One such flood” is actually Glacial Lake Missoula.
  

  
  

  
  From the U.S. Geological Survey:
  
  Missoula Floods: With the beginning of the Pleistocene time, about one million years ago, cooling temperatures provided conditions favorable for the creation of great sheets of moving ice. Thus began the Ice Age. At the end of the last Ice Age, a finger of the Cordilleran ice sheet crept southward into the Idaho panhandle, forming a large ice dam that blocked the mouth of the Clark Fork River, creating a massive lake 2,000 feet deep and containing more than 500 cubic miles of water. Glacial Lake Missoula stretched eastward for some 200 miles and contained more water than Lake Erie and Lake Ontario combined. When the highest of these ice dams failed, lake water burst through, shooting out at a rate 10 times the combined flow of all the rivers of the world. This towering mass of water and ice literally shook the ground as it thundered toward the Pacific Ocean, stripping away hundreds of feet of soil and cutting deep canyons -- "coulees" -- into the underlying bedrock. With flood speeds approaching 65 miles per hour, the lake would have drained in as little as 48 hours. Over time the Cordilleran ice sheet continued moving south and blocked the Clark Fork River again and again, recreating Glacial Lake Missoula. Over approximately 2,500 years, the lake, ice dam and flooding sequence was repeated dozens of times, leaving a lasting mark on the landscape.
  
  From NOVA, Mystery of the Megaflood: “From these new findings we can reconstruct just how Glacial Lake Missoula sent two and a half trillion tons of water, nearly half of Lake Michigan, surging across the American northwest.”
  
  
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  betterdaze

  The shallow Bethelite writers’ problem is that the Missoula Ice Age floods (plural) were due to ice dams collapsing.

  There are absolutely no “similar findings” connecting Missoula to the Biblical narrative where it rained for 40 days and nights, the flat earth’s climate was blissfully warm, and all was covered by a permanent water canopy.
  
  

  Similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.
  

  Those Young Earth Creationist “other scientists” can be found cross-quoting each other’s easily debunked pseudoscience “findings” @ Creation Ministries International (formerly Answers in Genesis) and Biblical Geology.