Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me (page 2)

EverApostate

Ask any christian about why Jesus had to die and they will talk about how Jesus suffered the punishment for their sins

So what was the outcome of Jesus death. Tangible things please.

cofty

EverApostate - I'm not defending the gospel I'm explaining it.

Non-believers should make the effort to understand stuff before they criticise it. It's no different from christians attacking evolution without understanding it.

I always had a secret problem with the ransom. I couldn't quite understand it. I couldnt understand why if we were christians and we accepted Jesus sacrifice and accepted Jehovah as our God, why did we need to do anything else? Why was i racked with guilt for buying a porno mag or saying a swearword or going to the office xmas party?

As i understood it the Watchtowers teaching is that Jesus died for mankinds sins. And that we're still sinful but when we die can be resurrected to paradise because Jesus blood paid the price of our sinful state. But it wasnt enough to believe in Jesus, you had to be a JW and knock on doors and obey all the new light.

Yet the born agains said that accepting Jesus means that Christ died for your sins, so your sinful state is paid off right now. That made more sense to me.

But anyway, i don't believe in such nonsense anymore.

EverApostate

No matter how hard I try to understand this "Jesus died for our sins", I couldn’t comprehend that. Sorry.

cofty

The non-JW christian gospel simply ...

A perfectly righteous god cannot overlook sin. Therefore we are alienated from god by our sin.

Sinless Jesus took on himself all of our sins and vicariously received the punishment for them on the cross. "He who did not know sin he made to be sin for us..."

God could then be righteous when he declares sinners to be righteous whose penalty has been paid by Jesus.

Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.

EverApostate

Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.

I like that.

pale.emperor

The non-JW christian gospel simply ...
A perfectly righteous god cannot overlook sin. Therefore we are alienated from god by our sin.
Sinless Jesus took on himself all of our sins and vicariously received the punishment for them on the cross. "He who did not know sin he made to be sin for us..."
God could then be righteous when he declares sinners to be righteous whose penalty has been paid by Jesus.
Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.

I get ya.

Which begs the question: why create hell in the first place? Why not just forgive the sin? Even if you must punish Adam and Eve why punish the children that havent been born yet?

cofty

Why not just forgive the sin? Even if you must punish Adam and Eve why punish the children that havent been born yet?

Christians don't fixate on Adam in the same way, that is a JW thing.

Adam was more like a representative of humanity. The focus in the gospel is on our personal responsibility for our actual sinful actions. For those we deserve death but the price has been paid on our behalf by Jesus.

The idea of vicarious punishment is crucial - pun intended. It was central to the Jewish sacrificial system where the blood - representing the life - of sheep and goats stood in place of the lives of sinful Hebrews. Jesus became the "Lamb of god that takes away the sin of the world".

The gospel as preached by the early church was about a restoring of relationship between god and the penitent sinner in the present life. It was about spiritual restoration as opposed to the JW gospel which is materialistic in nature.

Disclaimer - I am not defending this idea as either rational or moral.

cofty

The message, kerygma, of the early church was not about petting pandas in paradise of even playing harps in heaven but about forgiveness of sins through faith in the "work" of Jesus.

Here is Paul's message in Antioch ...

“Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses." - Acts 13

The WT teaches a different gospel of their own invention.

truthseeker

Whom did the Ransomer release?

Released us from the slavery to sin

Never understood this.

If someone kidnaps someone's child, the victim pays the kidnapper a ransom and gets his kid back. In this case, the price was paid but there was no immediate, tangible benefit.

We still sin, get sick and die.

Please explain the Watchtower's "Ransom" for me

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