Universal sovereignty on trial

by Factfulness 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  Consciousness is said to be the ground being. What does that even mean?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_mind

  Universal Consciousness (redirected, here, as Universal Mind) is a concept that tries to address the underlying essence of all being and becoming in the universe. It includes the being and becoming that occurred in the universe prior to the arising of the concept of “Mind,” a term that more appropriately refers to the organic, human, aspect of Universal Consciousness. It addresses inorganic being and becoming and the interactions that occur in that process without specific reference to the physical and chemical laws that try to describe those interactions. Those interactions have occurred, do occur, and continue to occur. Universal Consciousness is the source, ground, basis, that underlies those interactions and the awareness and knowledge they imply.
  
  
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  I think to 2 slit experiment and wave collapse function when making an observation, and other such experiments that prove this point to consciousness being everything.

  There is no such connection You have just gone full Deepak. Never go full Deepak.

  You forgot to throw in the 'q' word.

  So what are the connections to consciousness observations causing the wave to collapse into a particle?

  
  
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?

  Yes of course it does.

  No it don't your mind makes the sound. The crashing tree makes vibrations it does not make sound, sound is made in the mind and does not exist outside the mind. The earthworms and bugs within the area may experience vibration but wont interpret it into sounds we hear, it will be something else entirely.
• 

  Coded Logic

  But the idea of an uncaused material cause that started the universe doesn’t seem to make sense since everything that is material has a cause.

  -SBF

  Everything we observe in our universe is energy changing from one state to another state. We've never observed a "material cause". Insisting that the universe have a "material cause" since nothing else in the universe has a "material cause" seems to be entirely arbitrary and is probably a non-sequitur.
• 

  cofty

  The crashing tree makes vibrations it does not make sound

  But absolutely nothing different happens whether a conscious creature was there or not - which is what you were trying to imply.
  
  
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  The only difference is some one wasn't there to hear the sound and so no sound was made. The insects experienced vibration and with their tiny little brains they heard no sound just moved in some programed response to the vibration.
• 

  slimboyfat

  This supposes that physical material is the fundamental component of reality. This is the dominant view in our time, but it is not the only way of seeing the world. An alternative is the view that consciousness is fundamental and that we create the world through our perception.

  https://youtu.be/n6-Q6seVViU
  
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  Cool vid.

  I like his approach to consciousness.

  The universe exist in our consciousness and the brain creates the universe as we perceive it, the universe does not exist without consciousness, they're both are the same thing. We are the Universe and the Universe is us, once we quiet the monkey mind a different picture comes in view they say the nondual experience is life changing.
• 

  slimboyfat

  I think there is growing support for the idea that consciousness is basic to the universe itself and does not just arise magically in the brain from nowhere. I am sympathetic to this idea.
• 

  Brokeback Watchtower

  I think non dually speaking, everything is just one thing and consciousness is it, that's all there is just that. The physical brain is more or less a antenna that receives and broadcast to the universal mind or consciousness for what ever reason. What we perceive as objects are all holograms inside a one or two dimensional sphere. Thus everything is connected because even a small piece of the hologram has information about the whole hologram.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

  https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/172812-our-universe-is-a-hologram-and-were-floating-inside-of-it-suggests-new-research