It means that everything we are and know and experience derives its existence from something else, whereas God does not derive his existence from anything else. You may disagree with the idea, but I don’t see why it should be difficult to understand. Even if you don’t believe in God there is still the problem of accounting for the original cause, or if there is not one, then accounting for the infinite chain of causes. So disbelieving in God doesn’t solve the problem. .
Universal sovereignty on trial
by Factfulness 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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nicolaou
So disbelieving in God doesn’t solve the problem. Slimboyfat
True enough, but postulating his existence doesn’t solve it either. Problems are solved by research and if a problem remains unsolved for millenia what does that prove - nothing other than it's a tough problem.
Folks like Perry take the route of believing easy answers but intellectual honesty precludes that for the rest of us.
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slimboyfat
It solves the problem in the sense that God is the word we use to describe how anything is able to exist at all. And it provides the idea that, while everything we know has a cause, there may be something outside of the world as we know it that accounts for everything. It may also be possible that nothing is uncaused and there is nothing outside of the world as we know it. But somehow this just does not “seem” as likely. It is difficult to explain why, but people who see it this way know what it means. As Krauhammer says, we are not in a position to know for sure about whether God exists, but atheism just appears to be the least likely of the available theologies.
There are some items of knowledge that are not discovered by research. For example we don’t know the square root of 2 by research, or what is sadness, or whether it is wrong to steal. These things were not discovered by experiment or scientific method, but we count them as things we “know”. The existence of God seems more like this type of knowledge, rather than something that’s discovered by science such as the boiling point of water or the speed of light.
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nicolaou
I don't know who Krauhammer is but I feel comfortable dismissing anyone who considers atheism a theology.
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cofty
disbelieving in God doesn’t solve the problem
Disbelieving in god is the null hypothesis. Positing a god solves nothing.
Your 'logic' is a train wreck.
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Brokeback Watchtower
When we speak of gods we are merely projecting our own imagination onto the said deity. Jehovah or the bible's supreme main deity is a projection of man's mental out look at the time using his own human emotions and labeling/projecting his deity with these very human charactoristics as hate, envy, jealousy, love, violence and so forth. Remember this is the bronze age there was a lot they haven't discovered about the world or cosmos yet.
I am tending to think that the mystics are right and every thing is just one thing(nonduality) the sense of being a you is merely brain function of the Default Mode Network which could be for all we know a computer simulation, inside a computer simulation on and on till infinity perhaps.
So any moral qualities we give to any god is just a projection from the mind, so to speak like we could know god's mind is therefore inaccurate and assuming too too much.
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MrRoboto
Speaking of Job, he ascribed nothing bad to god.
Except the bad things he ascribed to god.
Maybe Job isn't the best example of God's existence.
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MrRoboto
Nicoloau, atheism can certainly be a religion, I'm not sure I would call it "theology" though.
A-theism is w/o god(s) which really means that a person believes there is no god. an agnostic is admitting that they have no knowledge of god(s) but without specifically saying they know there is no god. See the difference?
The one claiming knowledge of things that they cannot personally verify is practicing a religion complete with belief systems and all, whereas someone claiming not to know things they could not know is simply being honest.
Lets be honest, atheism is a religion as much as Christianity and there's even that sort of self-righteous attitude that can creep into atheists just like other religions.
If you've read any of my other posts, you'll know that I'm not coming from a place of judgement or pro-god or pro-bible so please don't take my words here the wrong way. Lets all just be honest is all I'm saying.
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Coded Logic
There must be a moral law giver, right? Man cannot agree on morals amongst themselves
There must be a health giver, right? Man cannot agree on health amongst themselves . . .
There must be a language giver, right? Man cannot agree on language amongst themselves . . .
There must be a blue/gold dress giver right? Man cannot agree on blue or gold amongst theselves . . .
If a concept is not well defined - or is in dispute - then the solution is to either better define the concept or is to bring evidence to the table. It's NOT to make vague appeals to an authority.
Stop being so intellectually lazy Perry.
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MrRoboto
Hey most people agree on some basics, even though they will go against them when it suits them better.
If you have to rely on someone else to make the laws for people en masse then you have governments and other groups of people that pop up to fill that void. If you want a god to fill that void then you may have to wait a while... Don't hold your breath though. If all you need is the idea of a god though, then join your preferred religion and the men there will happily tell you how to behave according to what god wants.