Evolution is a Fact - Index of Parts 1 - 40

by cofty 191 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Coded Logic

  I don't understand why Perry is being so rude. Checking out what scientists have to say about their respective fields is NOT "going to check with the elders".

  Elders are NOT experts in bibliography nor history nor anything else in which they so confidently make proclamations. They're merely regurgitating WT dogma.

  Conversely, scientists actually do research and analysis in the fields and submit their findings for peer review. And instead of addressing any of this very real science that Crofty and everyone else has brought to the table Perry instead just tries to hand wave it away by falsely equating it to Watchtower BS. He's a total troll who isn't interested in any kind of honest discussion.
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  Perry

  And instead of addressing any of this very real science that Crofty and everyone else has brought to the table Perry instead just tries to hand wave it away by falsely equating it to Watchtower BS.

  Coded Logic,

  I am directly addressing the "science" of evolution Cofty writes about. I have repeatedly asked Cofty to apply the principles he writes about to a bug. I am not asking him to start with humans who can send people to the moon in rocket ships. ....just a caterpillar. I find it hard to imagine how I can be more confrontational than I already am, but I will think about your suggestion.

  I don't understand why Perry is being so rude.

  When Cofty calls Nimble Duck "Dumble F*ck", you don't say a word about that being rude do you?

  Cofty is the one claiming that there is no question that naturalism can't answer. Well??

  It is not being rude to test claims like that.
• 

  recovering

  There is an excellent article on this in Scientific American that fully describes the process . Though the caterpillar does break down much of it's unneeded protein building blocks ,it does keep a certain amount of cells that contain DNA that codes for each of an adult butterfly 's organs and body parts. It is important to note that these cells are present way before the butterfly/caterpillar egg hatches. In other words the essential DNA to code a butterfly does not need to change as a caterpillar metamorphosis, it is in fact always present.

  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/caterpillar-butterfly-metamorphosis-explainer/

  Btw Perry no one wants you to be " confrontational " I think that posters are asking you to be responsive, concise, and to address the salient points ,rather than attempt to deflect and obfuscate .

  I do thank you however Perry for bringing up the philosophy of naturalism. Truly an interesting philosophy. Where you aware that it was a philosophy that Christians adopted and further developed ?
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  recovering

  The modern emphasis in methodological naturalism primarily originated in the ideas of medieval scholastic thinkers during the Renaissance of the 12th century:

  By the late Middle Ages the search for natural causes had come to typify the work of Christiannatural philosophers. Although characteristically leaving the door open for the possibility of direct divine intervention, they frequently expressed contempt for contemporaries who invoked miracles rather than searching for natural explanations. The University of Paris cleric Jean Buridan (a. 1295-ca. 1358), described as "perhaps the most brilliant arts master of the Middle Ages," contrasted the philosopher's search for "appropriate natural causes" with the common folk's habit of attributing unusual astronomical phenomena to the supernatural. In the fourteenth century the natural philosopher Nicole Oresme (ca. 1320–82), who went on to become a Roman Catholic bishop, admonished that, in discussing various marvels of nature, "there is no reason to take recourse to the heavens, the last refuge of the weak, or demons, or to our glorious God as if He would produce these effects directly, more so than those effects whose causes we believe are well known to us."

  Enthusiasm for the naturalistic study of nature picked up in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries as more and more Christians turned their attention to discovering the so-called secondary causes that God employed in operating the world. The Italian Catholic Galileo Galilei (1564–1642), one of the foremost promoters of the new philosophy, insisted that nature "never violates the terms of the laws imposed upon her."

  [11] Ronald L. Numbers (2003). "Science without God: Natural Laws and Christian Beliefs." In: When Science and Christianity Meet, edited by David C. Lindberg, Ronald L. Numbers. Chicago: University Of Chicago Press, p. 267.
  
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  Coded Logic

  Perry,

  Have you done any research on the evolution of a caterpillar? Why should Crofty be obligated to do your research for you?

  And why haven't you read any of the posts or links provided by other posters who have answered the question you asked?
• 

  wizzstick

  And why haven't you read any of the posts or links provided by other posters who have answered the question you asked?

  Whenever people have put up links in this thread, and other threads, Perry never engages with them. Never comes back with a PoV, explaining what he disagrees with in the article and why.

  Evolution doesn't fit his belief system. So all he wants to do is attack it.
  
• 

  Vidiot

  @ Cofty...

  You realize that - for all intents and purposes - you've written a book by now, right?
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  Perry

  Sorry guys, my challenges & questions are directed toward Cofty, the author of this thread.
  
  Still waiting Cofty.

  Ancient Navaho Proverb: You can't wake someone pretending to be asleep.
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  waton

  Evolution is a process that has happened on an onionskin layer on this small planet, and, one way or another we are here, Given the immensity of the total Enterprise, is it really important to quibble about these details? It worked!
• 

  Ruby456

  Perry

  Cofty is the one claiming that there is no question that naturalism can't answer. Well??

  I think what cofty is saying is that the answers satisfy him. of course there are loads of questions naturalism cannot answer but its speculative arm imagines that in time every question will be answered. However, in order to provide an answer to every question nowadays most scientists acknowledge the importance of pooling knowledge with the human sciences and with the humanities which includes religion and even then acknowledge how far humans are from providing an answer to every question.

  I was just thinking this morning that very often science is treated like an esoteric magical religion with its own priesthood of scientists. Think of the money, influence and truth bearing characteristics they are given and how little actually comes out of it.

  mind you I love science but I am very very skeptical of its aims and achievements at the same time.

  edit: Cofty you need to provide backup evidence for your claims - research papers and links.