by Bangalore 178 Replies latest jw friends
Why do you or anyone feel like you're entitled to answers. How does it affect you?
Evans has set himself up as the "voice of the silent majority". If he takes it upon himself to speak for the exJW community then it's only right that that community can expect answers to its questions.
I wasn't directing all of my questions at you directly Morpheus, just thinking aloud at the discussion itself. So hopefully you don't think I'm putting words in your mouth, it wasn't my intent.
There's a phenomenon in this world that I don't get. It seems like we love to build people up just to tear them down. Perhaps we shouldn't build them up anyway, they're just people. Obviously some people build themselves up and maybe Lloyd is that guy.
If someone negs me for my comments that's fine, we don't have to agree. I have more respect for someone that makes a mistake, even a horrific one, and that is vulnerable enough to admit it, than the alternative. Maybe John Lloyd Cedars-Evans did something bad. Maybe he's a total douchebag or worse. I don't know him.
I'd still be interested in seeing exactly what he said, in context. It still wouldn't define everything he is, was, or will be, at least for me. Your mileage may vary, but it seems as though many (not necessarily you Morph) get off on watching people fall. If dude did something awful that's sad and I hope he turns things around or already has if it was something in the distant past.
I'm also not trying to tell anyone what to discuss. I'm just discussing the part I find more interesting, human behavior around instances like this. Noone has to engage me if they don't want. They can go right back to the trashing of the guy. Whatever makes one happy.
I agree with Dubstepped.
Some seem view Cedars as Christ...and some seem to view him as the Antichrist. For some of us, he is neither, especially for those of us who woke up around the same time.
For some, he can do no wrong. I get that people admire those who helped wake them up, just as I greatly admire Ray Franz, Carl Olaf Jonsson, and Steven Hassan.
For some, he can do no right. Obviously, he has make mistakes along the way. But for this crowd, there is no forgiveness and no mercy. Every word and action is picked apart. Horrible accusations are made without evidence. Hour long videos and podcasts are made ranting about this one individual. I'm more afraid of this contingent, because how do you know you are not next if you somehow run afoul of them? I can only conclude that some who've made great efforts in their personal vendettas likely have an equally sized ego.
These are the same people that see monsters and erotic images in pictures, or who insist Russell was part of a occultic Masonic conspiracy, or that the Governing Body tries to channel spirits through children. They do not stick to documented evidence like Ray Franz or Jim Penton did, but build speculative sandcastles based on interferences and gaps in knowledge.
These are the same people that want a ban on Jehovah's Witnesses, the vast majority who are victims of deception and undue influence, forgetting that if such a thing had been enacted when they were JWs, they themselves would face jail, fines, or worse. They cheer on Vladimir Putin's oppressive government.
These are the same people that do not agree with Ray Franz or Steven Hassan when it comes to the best approach to take with helping JWs. They take the approach that would enforce the brainwashing and drive individuals further into the cult.
I don't agree with Lloyd on everything, but I do independently agree with with Lloyd's position with on these two matters. When he is heavily insulted over taking these positions (for instance called an Apologist), then I feel that everyone who agrees on these points falls under this insult. The reply often is, "Well you can't be so black and white about these matters" by the very people who are being black and white about their own stand.
I said: If he owned up to some mistake in the past is he forever defined by it like a disfellowshipped person is forever labeled unless they come crawling back?
Morpheus replied: As for your ridiculous comparisons to being df’d.... please. Because i think someone is an ass and dont want to deal with them dosent equate cult shunning. Thats called life. We dont all see eye to eye and we dont all like each other as besties. To take personal decisions and try to equate them to cult instituted shunning trivializes the pain inflicted by the cults manditory shunning. It also takes away the responsibility i willingly bear for having a view of a person.
So I wanted to let this go, but I'm somewhat obsessive and although I was working and didn't have time earlier I wanted to address the above because it was rolling around in my mind. I didn't feel like your categorization of what I said was fair at all.
My point and question was about a forever label, not an act like shunning. Like labeling John Lloyd a pedo or whatever. A person that has been disfellowshipped and labeled a fornicator or whatever is forever branded with that label unless and until they address the situation.
So you took my question about that label and how labels stick to a person and made it all about what you wanted it to be about for some reason, the act of shunning. So much so that you accused me of trivializing the pain inflicted by the cult's mandatory shunning. Really? Again, I never discussed the act of shunning and was talking about labels that stick to people unless they come crawling back, exactly what people are doing here by expecting him to address labels that are being put upon him based on reading into the terms used in his book. You are the one talking about acts of cult shunning, not me. I never even used the word.
For the record, I am shunned. My wife is shunned. My first act of rebellion was going against the shunning policy and visiting my brother knowing that it would get me shunned. I do a podcast called "shunned" where I help people tell their stories of being shunned. But you accused me of trivializing it. See how easy it is to take words, read things into them, and then jump to assertions? Who knows, maybe someday I'll say something on my podcast that people can hate on me with. Oh to be so famous, lol.
When it comes to Cedar Evans, he certainly has been a polarizing figure. I don't agree with a lot of what he's said or done, and the piling on seems odd, but this site does seem rather anti-Evan Johns, so maybe it's just par for the course here. Maybe there's a history with him that I don't even know. People aren't all good or all bad. Clearly he has some of both in him too.
If dude did something awful that's sad and I hope he turns things around or already has if it was something in the distant past.
Just for the record, my take on Lloyd is that he made terrible mistakes and his apology was basically, "Even though I argued with you all, you still disagree with me. No wrongdoing took place, but if it did, everything was someone else's fault. You all want me to admit my fault. Well, here is your apology even though I still never admitted any wrongdoing."
It reminds me of the man on trial for raping a girl who tells the judge, "I am being framed, I wasn't in town. I never even met that girl. Besides, she was not raped, she was willing. And that isn't the same girl I raped anyway."
Even at that, he could slowly possibly show that he has changed and some might let it go. But not by soliciting funds ths way.
@OTWO - I agree. He's terrible with apologies and seems good at coming up with ways to need to apologize.
As for the funds, I don't like it, but apparently some do if he's got sales and donors and it's not up to me to like what others like. If some want to do it to show support then that's up to them. None of them have to prove anything to me, neither Lloyd nor his supporters. They're free to do their thing.
I defend their right to support him, but I hope they defend my right to blast him for making such a request in a self-idolizing way.
Oh, and I am an author. If you wanna buy my 1st book, great. If you want to send me money encouraging me to write "Fade from the Truth, the Aftermath" I will set up a gofundme page. I do my best writing under a shady palm tree on a particular beach in St. Thomas. I can't get it done if I have to go to work and live in the cold.
Dubby nor of the fact that he didn't even reply to my query regarding helping to get the word out about my podcast activism,
You are of no use to him, worse, you are the competition. If word got out that you were loaded he would suddenly want you on board to collaborate in some way.
In his defense it's not easy making a living as a writer.
Diogenesister: If word got out that you were loaded
Well then, let's not mention it here, lol. My house cleaning riches and podcast millions need to be kept under wraps.
