by jambon1 20 Replies latest jw friends
Jehovahs Witnesses are the only people alive who have children and say "I love you, but if you don't do this, that, or the other, I won't"
Other cults or religions also do, for example mormons or exclusive brethren. It's the strength of a cult to make kind and good people act as heartless people just because they are told to do so.
But The rebel is right : every parent has his own responsability!
And yet the society says "we are NOT a cult"
Yep....right!
Hi All,
WHAT IS THE NATURE OF A PERSON WHO SHUNS ANYONE? WHO ARE THEY AT THE CORE, ARE THEY CAPABLE OF LOVE?
Here's a little story, I had a friend who was a heroin addict. Her parents put her in all types of drug programs. They tried everything to get her off of drugs. Well, they took it another level (aka: tough love). They had her arrested, then the system sent her to another program...Viola, she kicked the habit. Did her parents give up on her...NO...My friend died a few years ago, but it wasn't from drugs...just a health problem, but her parents stuck it out with her. This is just a little example of when a child doesn't turn out the way parents think they should.
I can't imagine someone that grows a child in their tummy is capable of shunning their child, oh yeah, you can get so angry with them, that you may not want to talk to them, but that doesn't last. In my mind ( I said my mind, so i't only my opinion), there has to be some disconnect in a person to begin with to be able to do this.
Another thing to think about we don't what folks do out of the sight of the org. I know some folks that have family members DF'd, sure in the hall, they are distant but some have slipped while talking to me & say they eat here or there or go here or there....
There are folks who are just hardcore JW or Not JW. To have love in your heart is not as common as we think it is. It's really a gift. Many at the hall have to be reminded to LOVE, because they don't have a clue of what it is....Love has to be taught to some. Maybe some have never experienced in their homes or from anywhere. Ever hear some of the friends when it comes to the fruitage of the spirit ( we hear millions of times) they say, Ah, what great reminders...DO WE REALLY HAVE TO BE REMINDED TO LOVE. Either you have it or you don't. Again, many come from places where there was no example of LOVE. For some it comes naturally, those know they never had it so they want to love even if it's difficult for them.
The folks that can & do shun their own they have to be pitied. They are missing out on THIS LIFE...In this life, we don't know who's going to give us our last drink of water.
Hopefully the ones they shunned will rise above and love the ones that shunned them regardless.
Tor
Janbon
I remember many years ago when I started to have the "scales start to fall from my eyes" that there was a KM which had an article about youth an the operative word was we love you when.
I counted the article said we love you when 5 times, each time noting some behavior that was worthy of their so called love.
It struck me that this was not any kind of love at all, only conforming behaviors like some robotic soldier.
Needless to say that was the beginning of the end for me.
Silas
Earlier this year, I had a JW mother and daughter call at the door. Although I mostly spoke to the mother, my thought was mostly to plant some seeds in the daughter’s mind as she was about 14 which is the age where teens often start to think for themselves.
We interspersed discussing religion with some sociable small talk and I started the conversation by asking the reasons why they believed the JWs had the truth and then countered with explanations of why I would certainly not want to belong to their religion even if I did believe in a god.
I was amazed that they stayed as long as they did (about half an hour) as I was laying into JW beliefs and practices with quite a strong iron fist, but in a very friendly and polite way. (I've never been in a KH or studied with JWs, so it was probably unexpected on their part to meet someone who wasn't an apostate who knew lots of details about their organisation).
On quite a few points the mum became tight lipped, agitated and had no answer, but the daughter’s reaction was the most interesting….. she was literally wide eyed with her mouth slightly open as she listened to the conversation, especially about the flood and the Australian Royal Commission (which I suggested they should google to see their governing body member being deceitful).
I guess the daughter was probably more used to her mum confidently leading the discussion and being ready with answers to all questions rather that flailing around on the defensive with no logical answers.
The most shocking point I left till near the end of our chat as I thought it might terminate the discussion. I had brought the daughter into the conversation a couple of times in general chit chat to ask about school and her future plans.
I complimented the mum on having an intelligent and beautiful daughter but said that I was horrified to know that if, in a few years’ time, the daughter decided she didn’t want to be part of the JW religion any more, her parents would be expected to shun her. I calmly said that I personally thought that was a disgusting and inhumane practice and told her that I have a daughter too and couldn’t comprehend how anyone could be part of a religion which accepted this. The mum was lost for words to start with but then mumbled about it being a loving thing to do, but I could tell by the way both were looking down and squirming that they were both highly embarrassed.
It may have been a rather shocking and insensitive thing to say with the daughter listening, but I wanted to get her to think about the reality of her religion, and also surreptitiously put the thought in her mind that leaving is an option for the future.
HB.....I had a conversation with my own daughter about the shunning policy.
I was watching a documentary on the exclusive bretheren that has a similar shunning policy. My daughter asked what I was watching. I explained it to her and then said that the woman in the documentary had been completely shunned- by her parents for years. She asked why. I said because she left her religion. She said in her own kind of way ooohhh kayyy!
I said crazy isn't it? I then said believe it or not we (Jehovah's Witnesses) are also expected to do the same. She didn't say anything. I said I can assure you darling that mummy and I would NEVER EVER do such a cruel thing..... EVER. Seed planted. She is an intelligent girl and will see things for what they are as she turns into an adult.
Sadly my wife doesn't want to hear me speak negatively of the organisation any more. She knows things aren't right, but I understand why she burys her head in the sand. Fear of facing facts and rocking the boat I guess.
Hi Truthexplorer,
What you told your daughter is wonderful. I'm sure knowing that you will always put her welfare before the requirements of a religion will give her a valuable sense of security and a balanced personality.
The simple but powerful words you said are what I would have hoped the JW mother at my door would have said when the subject came up, but she didn't and I felt bad for the daughter. It wasn't my place to comment further about their family life, but I hope it works out for the best for the daughter. I'm pretty certain she is not lucky enough to have an 'awake' father like your daughter, as they said that the Dad and the son were waiting in the car so they had to go.
Good luck with helping your wife pull her head out of the sand!
Heather
I'd love to have seen some of the conversations that took place after the convention videos. Particularly the one where the parents cruelly refuse to even answer the phone to their daughter.
Theres bound to have been kids or young adults who questioned their parents on why this is seen as acceptable parenting.
I'd love to have seen some of the conversations that took place after the convention videos. Particularly the one where the parents cruelly refuse to even answer the phone to their daughter.
Theres bound to have been kids or young adults who questioned their parents on why this is seen as acceptable parenting.
@Pale Emperor,
This is something to keep in mind....Mum is going to get older, even though she thinks the end is right around the corner. Who is going to look after her when she gets older ? I won't swear or bet, but it'll be you. I have found in this life, that the very people that say they don't need you .....eventually, they will. If you are a type of person who shuns your own family....basically you are a mean spirited person, so they most likely chase folks away.
I was the one who commented earlier about....what type of folks shun their own flesh & blood, what is the nature of this type of person ? Most of the time folks on here never answer me or reply...I think at times I make folks really think...or maybe I'm balanced even if I'm a witness...& I don't have any sob stories...but who cares, I'm on this site to vent & make sure, I'm not crazy....& others see & hear what I do.But all us on here need to really look at the core of a person who would shun someone....this question also makes us look at ourselves...Who are we really inside...I'm a witness...not hard core, but I like my congregation. When it comes to DF'ing, they always say, it's a loving thing to do....I just look at them, then in my mind...bingo...they exposed their real character. How could they have any real love in them...Love is a strong emotion...so strong, songs are written...One song that comes into mind is...Love is stronger than pride...it's like you can't turn it on or off...Even children Love no matter what type of parent they have, they could have a druggy parent, but they still love them. The worse parent could lock their child in a closet, when that parent opens the door, that child will reach out to them...
We have to pity those who shun, there is nothing in the bible that says this...folks have misinterpreted it completely....JW's use the bible to support some of their nonsense, cherry picking all over the place...But let me remind folks...the bible in the wrong hands can be fatal...Slave masters used the bible back in slavery days to uphold slavery...."Slaves be good to your Master". & Guess what? The slaves believed it because they couldn't read...so they couldn't read further to see what the bible really says.
I love this site...I read it daily...I mean daily....who ever started this site...
It's a beautiful thing.
Tor
