If Ever GB Members Deserved To Be Thrown in Jail It's When ...

by smiddy3 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Simon
    Simon

    Why not jail the parents?

    They are the ones who ultimately made the decision.

    If you follow bad advice and don't look into the qualifications of those giving it, that's on you.

    I know everyone wants to blame the GB for everything but ultimately I think we need to place blame where it lies. If you put blind faith in someone or some belief system and chose to follow it to the point that your child dies, and you didn't bother to put effort into researching things ... that's all on you.

    In the same way that parents today can believe in homeopathy and watch while their child dies. Yes, the advice is nuts, but the parents are the ones who follow it.

  • Darkknight757
    Darkknight757

    My micro preemie daughter required multiple transfusions over the 78 days she was in NICU.

    We asked the nurse what would have happened if we denied her those life saving transfusions and she said that the courts would have taken her from us.

    Unfortunately by the time the legalities were done, it would have been too late.

    JW parents need to realize that THEY ALONE made a dumb decision, not their child. That child deserves life. They can make that choice when they get old enough to understand the risks. (Hopefully they will be smarter than their parentsπŸ˜‰)

  • TD
    TD

    Free will is a good and sound principle, but people can be misinformed to the point where their free agency is compromised.

    --That's why practicing medicine / law / engineering / architecture without a license are illegal.

    If the JW's had presented their views on blood as purely a matter of doctrine / faith / biblical interpretation it would be one thing.

    But they have not.


  • Brock Talon
    Brock Talon

    While I have no lost love for the GB, I don't know if I agree with the premise of this post that the GB should be thrown in jail.

    Suppose I were to tell someone casually, "Hey, why don't you jump off that bridge? You know, just for kicks?"

    If that person did, would I be breaking a law? Could I be arrested? Doubt it. Exactly which law did I break? (I'm not talking coercion or badgering or anything else that could be considered duress.)

    Better yet. What if I were to start a "bridge jumping club" where we all sit around talking about how cool it would be to jump off a bridge with no parachute or bungee. If one of my members were to actually go do it, could I be arrested if they went splat? Under what premise exactly?

    This becomes even more difficult and shaky when religious beliefs are involved. First amendment rights are pretty strong in the United States of America.

    No, in the end people have to take responsibility for their own actions. I for one am pretty tired of the blame game where nothing is anyone's fault anymore. It's always someone else's fault. To me this falls under that category.

    Back in the 1960's there was a comedian named Flip Wilson who had this line that everyone laughed at: "The Devil made me do it!" No matter what outrageous thing he was caught at doing, it was always the Devil's fault. Back then, we all laughed at it because, well, it was ridiculous.

    Is it any different to cry "the GB made me do it!?"

  • UnshackleTheChains
    UnshackleTheChains

    I completely disagree with those who say it's the individual who chooses. I had a major operation without blood because I had been brainwashed and coerced to avoid blood by God's channel. The GB. I believed this teaching to be gods teaching. I was in a state of fear of doing wrong in gods eyes. Was it my choice. Yes, in the brainwashed mind control I was under at the time. I also had 2cweeks of sleepless nights worrying about my 1 year old daughter who also needed a big operation. My wife was black and white on the subject of blood. She unequivickly said she was not to have blood. The people who are solely responsible for coercing and brainwashing people into believing that blood transfusions are wrong rests solely with the governing body. Shame on them. They are absolutely culpable!!

  • btlc
    btlc

    True, no one put a gun to your head and forced you not to take medical treatment. But that line of reasoning works only for free people, and maybe PIMO or ex-JW.

    PIMI JW have a permanent spiritual gun pointed to his forehead all the time. And that weapon has more power than any physical one. Just because that gun isn't physical, it is still the real thing and presents a real power to real believer. And people who threaten others with that weapon aren't guiltless.

  • Brock Talon
    Brock Talon

    PIMI JW have a permanent spiritual gun pointed to his forehead all the time.

    The people who are solely responsible for coercing and brainwashing people into believing that blood transfusions are wrong rests solely with the governing body.

    I sympathize with these statements. I was PIMI at one time myself. But in my case I was indoctrinated by my own parents at the age of 6. Others I know of were actually born into the cult. Children are not responsible for their actions, not legally and not morally. They are not responsible for a belief system that is forced on them. If their parents "brainwashed them" then that is on the parents, not the children themselves.

    So if you are speaking about children, the I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. But you should then place the blame on the adult parents who did the coercing. I never had one Governing Body member spank me because I did not want to go to the meetings. I never had one GB slap me for fiddling about while out in service. No governing body member threatened me because I did not properly close my eyes during prayer. My parents did all that. If an Elder "counseled" me in a cult-like way with cult-like advice, it was my parents who agreed with that and made certain I toed the line.

    My parents chose to become Jehovah's Witnesses as adults. They chose to be brainwashed by the religion. If one starts to blame the GB, then what about the District Overseers, the Circuit Overseers, all of the Elders, the Ministerial Servants and everyone else who actually did the hands-on "brainwashing?" Why would you give those people a pass? These others had much more of hand in brainwashing my parents than the GB ever did. They were the actual hands on applicators of every abusive, cult-like move made on me.

    And my parents chose the religion for themselves and then pushed it on me. The GB did not do anything to me. Heck, a few years before I was born there wasn't even a GB at all, yet the religion existed. Who would we blame then?

    So, if you were an adult who chose to become a Jehovah's Witness, that my friend is not coercion. How were you coerced to join the religion? Did someone put a gun to your head and say "Hey, listen to my baloney and believe it or I will kill you?" How exactly was the religion forced on you if you were an adult of free will and chose to believe it?

    If you were an adult and you heard the message and you liked it, then that is on you. It must have spoken to you on some level. You must have wanted all that came with it, for whatever reason. For it to turn out that you were actually joining a cult and cause you harm, well, that was on you to figure out. Your "not free" mindset is something that you chose yourself.

    Don't blame the GB, the Devil, the Elders or someone else. Blame yourself. That is actually the healthy thing to do, because if you don't, you will never properly heal. You will forever walk in victim-hood in your own head and will be blaming others for what you should have known when you joined a cult voluntarily.

    Again, the situation is much more complicated for those of us born in the cult or brought in very young. For me, it took me about 40 years to wake up to the mess I believed in. Yet, I still blame myself for not figuring it out more quickly because deep down inside I knew something was wrong in my early twenties (after coming back from Bethel) but the indoctrination that I received as a child was very hard to overcome. So, I blame myself for not exiting earlier, but I don't blame myself for my initial belief system because that actually was forced on me.

    For me, I blame my parents. No one else. They were the ones who were responsible for raising me, for protecting me and for teaching me, not anyone else.

    --

    Final point: I always see people naively talk about the Governing Body as if they are the only ones who are "responsible" for the Jehovah's Witness faith. The thing is, if you have ever spent any time at Bethel like I have (and others on this board) we know that the GB is not a monolithic group (they don't all think exactly alike for example) and they are not the only ones in the faith with "power." There are many people on the Writing Committee for example who are not GB, but they exercise great power over the masses of Jehovah's Witnesses. There are many on the Speaking and Teaching Committees who do the same. Most of the people in Bethel in my days there that the young Bethelites spoke about the most and who we tried to emulate were not the Governing Body members at all. Those other lesser known people actually had more influence on us in the long run because the GB mostly seemed like old men we could not relate to at all. Some of the GB we even openly disliked and mocked in private. Those particular men had zero hold on us. To us, many of them were more figurehead than actual instructors... unless we happened to like that person. Some of them were quite likeable, while others, not so much.

    So to me, it very simplistic to try to represent the Jehovah's Witness faith with just a small group of old men who very few people even know personally.

  • UnshackleTheChains
    UnshackleTheChains

    Well why does this site even exist then. What's the point in jw discussion if we are all free agents and can freely choose to make our own decisions. So for the past 20 years it's all just been in my head. The watchtower leaders policies that impact on hundreds of thousands of people as we speak are not really to blame. So actually it is us as individuals who made wrong choices all our lives. Incredible. I can't believe I was so dumb. . So I can announce tomorrow to all my pimi family and many relatives that I am officially leaving jehovahs witnesses and if they shun ne for the rest of my life, well it is they who choose to shun me. Nope not the fault of the leaders who pressure and coerce people into carrying out such a behaviour πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚. So all the children who have died in the past refusing blood. It was the parents fault. So in effect you are saying Jim Jones was not really to blame for the mass suicide in South america. It was his followers who just made a wrong decision πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ€£πŸ€£. So why are we all on this site then most of whom hide our identities if it is us who are making the wrong choices. We have nothing to be afraid of anymore πŸ€”. So the GB who know full well exactly the harm their policies do to people given the thousands of letters including mine sent to them over the decades, the numerous negative documentaries and news reports about the cult . They are not to blame. All I can say is like Wow. I wish I coukd say I feel liberated, but then reality sets in and realise I am still in limbo with my life knowing I can't move on because of this fucking cult. Pardon my french, but you can sense my years of frustration. I want to officially leave this bullshit cult. But I love my relatives far more than those evil men at the top who refuse to budge an inch unless you drag them through the courts to make changes to their evil policies! I call them evil because they absolutely know beyond any doubt the suffering and pain their policies have caused, and continue to cause so many people worldwide. I joined the cult freely as you say having been preached to by my mother at the age of 16 years old. I thought back then it was a benign religious group that would fill a spiritual need. Little did I realise just how much my life would be micromanaged from that time on. I've been wanting to leave the cult for years, but can't because of the massive repercussions it would have on my mental health if my family shunned me. I am not strong like some people who can put up with the shunning I'm afraid.

  • Simon
    Simon
    What's the point in jw discussion if we are all free agents and can freely choose to make our own decisions.

    It's all about information - it's free and available, because people share their stories on sites like this.

    There are no excuses now for not knowing. Maybe 50+ years ago, but not anymore ... and even then, people chose to believe something to the point of risking their children's lives without really researching or listening to any dissenting opinion?

  • TD
    TD

    Brock,

    Suppose I were to tell someone casually, "Hey, why don't you jump off that bridge? You know, just for kicks?"

    The average intelligent (i.e. Mentally competent) adult would have no trouble grasping the risks of jumping off a bridge.

    The average intelligent adult does not and cannot reasonably be expected to understand a subtle misrepresentation of an esoteric medical study.

    Hell - Even if all you're doing is writing a fluffy article about a diet or exercise program for a trendy health magazine, you still have to disclaim it with, "Always consult your physician first." (Or something to that effect.)

    It is only the distaste for prosecuting a religion for anything except the most heinous crimes that allows JW leaders, policy makers and writers to get away with something that you or I would certainly be prosecuted for.

    Free will is a good and sound principle, but taken to an extreme, non-coercive crimes like fraud, swindling and misrepresentation cease to exist.

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