Question on the sun created in the fourth day (page 2)

opusdei1972

As I see, the Old Testament is not an inoffensive set of books. It says that God saw something special in a particular race, and it tells us myths that have been considered for many generations as the Word of God. As has been pointed out above, most of the books have a theological agenda rather than containing facts. Of course, these were ancient guys, but today it is unacceptable to teach that a divine being inspired these books.

David_Jay

@opusdei1972,

Of course if one considers that the God concept is different for the Jews than it is for Christians (and so, as a consequence, is the concept of inspiration), the problem may be caused by the lens one applies to the concepts of deity and revelation.

For Christians like Jehovah's Witnesses, God is a literal deity, a "supreme being" not too different than other gods like Zeus, for instance. But for Jews, "God" is actually not the ancient concept of what a deity is. The same term is used, but this is for a lack of a more accurate label.

In Judaism, tradition claims that before any direct revelation from God, Abraham came to realize that deities were false. He came to this realization by comparing nature to the idol gods sold by his father. Abraham reasoned that the world was "caused" by something far different than the gods worshipped by people.

This ultimate "Cause" is the God of Abraham and the Jews. Exactly what this Cause is transcends human capacity to comprehend. Compared to this Cause, a human is like an amoeba under a microscope and God is like a human watching it. An amoeba has no ability to comprehend the human on the other end of the microscope, and if it could think any concept it did attempt to create to define the human would fail.

This is not to say that the Cause is a being with a mind either. Some Jews think this Cause may be the universe itself with the laws of nature that govern and caused it. Some think this Cause has intelligence but so far advanced that human logic and intelligence cannot compare. God, therefore, in Judaism is mystery.

I remember a line from the film "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" where Dr Jones is teaching his class and says: "Archeology deals in facts. If you want truth, take a philosophy class."

The attitude that the Bible is unacceptable if it lacks facts is an argument we used to use out in field service. As Jehovah's Witnesses we were taught that it was a book of facts and that our beliefs were "proven" by looking into this fact book. We wouldn't believe anything without such "evidence," and we surely wouldn't believe in the Bible if it wasn't factual.

But it's a collection of writings dealing with the search for truth. It doesn't deal in facts. The whole idea that it's worthless or uninspired by the great Cause of the universe because it's not the fact book the Watchtower told you it was is like running back to the JW attitude: "I'm not going to believe it if it's not a fact book!"

Religion is like philosophy, concerned not with the empirical evidence of science but what the existence of the evidence means, the WHY it is here in the first place and why YOU are witnessing it. Just because the Bible is not the book JWs told you it was doesn't make the Bible wrong. It makes the JWs wrong.

James Mixon

Plants and trees get created before the sun gets created, humm. Also I guess he created Angels in one day on the 2nd day, when He made the firmament and divide the waters and God called the firmament Heaven. Or maybe the Angels were homeless up until that time.

atomant

lf god was all powerful and nothing is impossible for it why would it take days to create the earth.lf it took days to create the earth how long for the universe and why did god have to rest.?

opusdei1972

David_Jay: I think the Bible is indeed an interesting set of books to study the ancient thoughts. The writers were inspired in their idea of "God", but not by God in the fundamentalists sense. Of course, I admit that their idea of an invisible god was superior than those pagan gods, though it seemed to happen in a uniform way after the exile. However, in the Bible you can find fundamentalist statements, like "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?" (1 John 2:22). I see that early Christians were like Jehovah's Witnesses in that they thought they had the Truth. They still think that Jesus is the only way to get eternal life. I currently believe that these statements must be relaxed. In case of a future existence (I ignore if there is something more than this life), I don't think that it would depend on our system of beliefs.

David_Jay

@opusdei1972,

I do see what you are saying. I believe greatly that the literalist approach causes more than a little confusion with texts. I think it even applies to Christian texts too, such as the one you mention in 1 John.

If memory serves me, the author was not saying that all people who don't believe in Jesus are liars. He was specifically speaking of the Christian Gnostics who were denying that Jesus was the Messiah of the Jews. Marcion of Sinope was one who was heavily influenced by their teachings, and he started a heresy that taught that the Jews worshipped a lesser god than Jesus.

It is these people who eventually influenced Marcion that the author was calling liars. Marcionism taught the Christian Gnostic doctrine that Jesus had come in the flesh but was not the Christ.

tor1500

@David_Jay,

Just because the Bible is not the book JWs told you it was doesn't make the Bible wrong. It makes the JWs wrong.

Exactly, I could not have said it better myself....JW's have no idea who God is....to them God is who they want to get their approval from....They don't know that there is nothing you can do to gain his approval, except be a pretty decent sort of person, but kind to others...that type of thing...but JW's have an approval gene that stems from their environment, their home life etc.

Again, you said it in a nutshell. JW's haven't any idea who God is...as matter of fact many don't.

Tor

Crazyguy

The first chapter of Genesis proves the Bible wasn't inspired! Light before the sun, plants before the sun and the moon is an luminary.

Question on the sun created in the fourth day

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