Give me 5 minutes to explain... (page 2)

bohm

I heard that if you try to lay out TTATT all at once to a believing family member without having first read Steven Hassans books Lett will show up in your dreams. And he will be nude.

pixel

bohm, thanks for the book suggestion. I will look into it. Is true in the sense that everybody is different.

Lett will show up in your dreams. And he will be nude.

Oh the horror!!!

Oubliette

I tried that 13 years ago. That woman is now my ex-wife and still brainwashed by the cult.

Good luck, you'll need it!

Guess if time were so valuable to me that only five minutes could be spared for such an important subject, I'd narrow it down to one minute by saying, "I think we're in a cult and I'm afraid. Very, very afraid. Too afraid to even research. Will you research and find the signs of a cult and the methods they use and let me know what you find?"

freemindfade

Not sure what she is like, 5 minutes is just enough time to start a fight. I would say maybe some suggestions over time. Like start disagreeing or discussing some recent things and get a feel for her reaction just to that.

Londo111

It’s unlikely one can in 5 minutes undo years of indoctrination.

There is no silver bullet solution…nor is it one size fits all. Some people have gotten lucky and managed to get their family out, but the majority of cases, it’s a disaster. It’s like diffusing a bomb. You have one shot and the bomb can never unexplode

When you are mentally out for a time, or have free discussions on forums like this, or with coworkers, it is easy to forget that you are not talking people who will be reasonable on this matter, but one under undue influence or mind control.

I’ve seen this played out again and again over the last four years. Often the family member will raise the aposta-alarm and call in the elders to help “restore” the person attempting to reason with them. After that, it’s all downhill from there.

Perhaps the best thing would be to watch documentaries with the person about other cults, like Going Clear, Meet the Mormons, and so forth. Then ask questions, like, “How would you reason with such a person? They are utterly convinced they have the truth. What would happen if we are one of them and realized it wasn’t true? Would we stand up for truth if it meant getting cut off from family and friends?”

It’s easier to give this advice, than to heed it though. When dealing with our own loved ones, it’s not easy to have a cool head about the matter. It’s easy to slip up.

jonza

If it were me, I would come across as wanting to spiritually grow, and to tell her that I want us both to learn together, and truly understand everything we're being taught so we get grow closer to Jehovah together.. That would mean there would be no mental barriers go up and it would promote free thinking. Then approach a single subject at a time and in real depth. As you go through each one and realize this stuff just makes no sense or is based on lies or false evidence, hopefully it would just put too many doubts in their mind so that it cannot possibly the truth. No apostate material, just the Bible, WT material and the sources they site. Grab hard copies of the books they misquote with the 'innocent' intention of research and be shocked when it doesn't match up.. hopefully you can fake an awakening while they really wake up.

Just some suggestions. I had a similar approach when waking up my JW partner.

tragical

It depends. Depends on the person, how much you understand their psychological makeup and psyche, their current mood and disposition.

But ultimately I will have to be their own decision. I'd start with talking about when the end is coming and why it has not come yet. She will of course give the old 'well Jehovah has his day and time and he is waiting for more sheep to come in' for which you will point out that for each day that passes there are an additional 300,000 people born who are not Jehova witnesses. That could begin the thinking process. So much to talk about with her, you know her best.

If it makes you feel any better, Im in a similar situation but I'm planning on just walking.

done4good

Not possible, but neither is 5 days, weeks, months...

You can plant seeds, but that is about all you should do, even given an unlimited amount of time. If you are too direct/forceful all you will do is raise her cognitive dissonance to an alarming level, and she will likely react very negatively, and even dig in harder.

I am not suggesting "faking" it either, (although I understand the need to do that for a period). There is nothing wrong with stopping going to meetings, FS, and all of the other nonsense, and letting her come to you to ask why. You can start by saying something as, "Out of respect for your beliefs, I would rather not discuss it". Say that sincerely and mean it. People sense sincerity, and that in itself should soften her and allow her to open up a little more to further discussion. Then take it very slowly.

d4g

xjwsrock

I actually talked my wife into having a discussion about some of the things that have been "bothering me". I went with the (ridiculous) scripture the whole "new light" crap comes from. I had her read the whole chapter in Proverbs and then tell me what she thought it was about. Thankfully she played along. She saw the obvious point that it was just contrasting a righteous person and a wicked person.

I then pointed out that this is the chapter where they get the teaching about "new light". She looked puzzled. I then pointed out the verse. She saw my point but said she would do some research.

I then said I have a problem with all the failed prophesies. Then I showed her that scripture in Deut. about how to determine a false prophet. She said, "Well you have something there, I have to admit it." Again, though she said she would do more research.

So that was my 5 minute episode (prob more like 15). My take on it is this. The stimulus of doubt probably can't come from outside the person. I think I planted some seeds, but nothing earth shattering.

It takes a person months of "studying" to become one. It takes at least that long to un-become one, I would say.

Give me 5 minutes to explain...