Conversation with JW mom on this years memorial date and Nissan 14 discrepancy.

by Question_Mans_interpretation 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Question_Mans_interpretation

  I'm having an ongoing texting conversation with my mom right now on the march 23rd memorial date. She completely goes into cult mode.

  ME: Why is the memorial on March 23rd this year and not April 22nd/23rd when the corresponding Nissan 14 commences? Since when did the organization stop following the Jewish calendar for passover?

  Her: You are off by a month. Why is Easter on March 27th?

  Me: The society always stubbornly held to their understanding that Jesus memorial should only be celebrated once a year on Nissan 14 like the bible says but now they are a month off. The Jewish passover is April 22nd this year at sundown. Why don't u Google it. The witnesses are a month off

  Me: And For your information easter and passover do not historically always coincide with in the same week. I thought u knew that

  Her: Look in the back of your Bible on B15 the Hebrew Calendar.

  Me: Nope It doesn't explain why all the Jewish calendars this year have April 22nd as the start of passover. The jews have been using their Jewish calendar longer than the witnesses, I would trust when they say Nissan 14 is over the organization

  Her: Arent they the ones who rejected Jesus and killed him. Where is your brain!

  Me: What?!?!? What does that have to do with the wrong dates? Where is your brain. I'm confused on one subject and you try and bring up another

  Me: Just forget it. If you're not concerned about celebrating the memorial on the wrong date then It's no big deal.

  Her: You trust the natural Jews who do not believe Jesus was even the Messiah?

  Me: I trust they know their calendar and when they are suppose to celebrate passover. How they viewed and treated Jesus is another topic. Did you want to discuss my views on jews and their past actions regarding jesus?

  Her: Why dont you go on JW. Org and ask the question?

  Me: I was just about to suggest that since obviously you don't know why there's a month difference. I take it that they didn't have a talk about it at the kingdom hall so if I find out anything I'll let u know unless u care to find out for yourself

  Her:(just as I was about to post all the above) If all you care to do is find fault with the organization or that I havent done enough research. Think what you want. I love Jehovah and his son Jesus and the important thing is that we observe what he commanded us to do and what he did for us. You are just looking for faults. We all have them. If this organization is not being used by Jehovah, it will fail. Will it not?

  Hmm how to respond to this last one?
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  notsurewheretogo

  Interesting...found this online:

  In trying to follow Exodus 12:2, Exodus 13:3-4, 7-10, and Numbers 9:2-3, Judaism says that Passover, which they celebrate on Nisan 15 rather than on Nisan 14, must not fall before the northern hemisphere spring equinox (Tekufot Nisan). The spring equinox currently occurs each year on March 20th or 21st and is that time when day and night are of approximately equal length. The spring equinox establishes the first day of spring. It is a solar, not a lunar, phenomenon.

  But current Jewish calendar procedures periodically conflict with the use of the equinox to establish the first month of the religious year:

  In 2016, Nisan 14 (Passover) can fall on March 22, the first opportunity for the 14th day of a Biblical month to occur after the equinox. But the Jewish calendar sets Nisan 14 at April 22nd. Why? Because the Jewish year 5776 (the spring months of 2016 fall within the Jewish year 5776) happens to be the 19th year of the 19-year calendar cycle and is then, by Judaic definition, a leap year (the 13th month must be added). This forces the first month to begin one month later than it normally would. Unfortunately, their calendar leap year tradition is so rigid that they fail to follow what we agree is the correct interpretation of the scriptures listed above, that God gave them, which strongly imply that the Passover must be kept at the first opportunity on or after the spring equinox.

  What allows them to ignore their own calendar rules? One reason they feel free to adjust the calendar to their liking is because Leviticus 23:2 and 4 are interpreted by Jewish Oral Law as saying that the people are allowed to keep the Holy Days on whatever day is most convenient.

  It should be pointed out that the Jewish calendar leap year designations are NOT Biblical.

  Let's add a little more detail: The spring equinox occurs on March 20th at 4:40 PM, Jerusalem time. The Jewish calendar calculates the new moon of Adar II (the 13th month of the previous religious calendar year) to be at 9:31 PM on March 8th and, due to the postponements of the previous Tishri 1, March 11th as the first day of the month. Either day will place the 14th day of Adar II on or after the spring equinox and thus the month should be Nisan (Abib), not Adar II. The result of this error is that the Jewish calendar is ONE MONTH LATE from March 2016 through March 2017! By making 5776 a leap year, they ignore the fact that, by their own interpretation of the Torah, Passover must be observed at the first opportunity on or after the spring equinox. This is the way the lunar calendar is kept synchronized with the solar calendar, and is an essential part in keeping the Passover (and every other Holy Day) in its season.

  But some may wonder why it matters when Abib occurs, as long as it is in the spring. One of the major justifications why Abib should be assigned to the first qualifying month relative to the spring equinox is that there needs to be a consistency between years so that crops will be in approximately the same stage of development at the same time each year. The importance of the maturity of grain for the wave-sheaf offering (Lev. 23:9-14) is obvious. Another reason is that the one month delay will push the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) too late and too close to the Israeli fall rainy season. For this reason we should avoid delaying Abib until the second month after the equinox as the Jewish calendar does in 2016. It is peculiar how the spring equinox is called "Tekufot Nisan", but when a conflict with the designated leap year occurs, the equinox is forced to fall in Adar II, not Nisan.

  The Church of God Most High believes that the first day of every month must begin at the true conjunction of the sun and moon (the new moon) and that Passover (Abib or Nisan 14) must occur at the first opportunity on or after the spring equinox. That places Abib 1 on March 9th and Tishri 1 on September 1st. The result of all this is that in 2016 the Jewish calendar will keep the holydays one lunar month late.
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  Pete Zahut

  Think what you want. I love Jehovah and his son Jesus and the important thing is that we observe what he commanded us to do and what he did for us. You are just looking for faults. We all have them. If this organization is not being used by Jehovah, it will fail. Will it not?

  Hmm how to respond to this last one?

  There are plenty of religions that JW's view as false and not being backed by Jehovah. They have not failed in fact many have been around for centuries and have a world wide membership greater than Jehovah's Witnesses. So success or failure of a religion is not positive proof that they are being backed by God.

  The Society has always stressed how Jehovah is a God of order and that our worship must be exacting so why is it "fault finding" to try and understand why this years Memorial is a Month ahead of when it is typically observed? If you don't know or don't even care to find out just say so but don't get annoyed at me. If someone you met at the door asked you the same question, you'd be scrambling to get them an answer instead of accusing them of "fault finding" .
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  Question_Mans_interpretation

  Wow the Jewish calendar sounds more complex than I thought and sounds like there is an explanation. This is the last response I gave

  Me: Good lord mom why does everything have to be with finding fault. You go to meetings, do u not? I was thinking when they introduced the memorial dates to the congregations that maybe there was some announcement or talk about the memorial dates and why the month difference. This year is a leap year after all and the Jewish jubilee just passed so I thought possibly there was some un known factors or a witness explanation.

  Her: Im going out to invite people to the memorial and im in a hurry. Not close to any thing in _______! I am doing research, didnt have as much time when you were little!
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  jookbeard

  its a shame that you wont be able to inform her that the non partaking by a vast percentage of all who attend it are mirroring occult/devil worshipping groups and Freemasonry, I wonder what she would say?
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  Question_Mans_interpretation

  Wow Pete zahut that was an excellent response, I may use that still. It's perfect actually
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  OUTLAW

  Me: Nope It doesn't explain why all the Jewish calendars this year have April 22nd as the start of passover. The jews have been using their Jewish calendar longer than the witnesses, I would trust when they say Nissan 14 is over the organization.

  ........

  ..........................

  ..................Why Would Jews Know Anything..

  ......................About Jewish Celebrations?!!..

  .....................
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  Anders Andersen

  If this organization is not being used by Jehovah, it will fail. Will it not?

  It already does. If you are willing to listen, I can show you why I say that?

  Unless of course you think that JW existing alone is proof enough of Jehovah's blessing.

  But in that any church can claim to be God's people, right?
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  OneEyedJoe

  If this organization is not being used by Jehovah, it will fail. Will it not?
  

  My response to this would be "That's true. And would you rather wait for the organization to fail before you leave it behind, or would you prefer to know now so that you can take heed of Rev. 18:4 knowing that if you wait for it to fail, it might be too late?"
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  Anders Andersen

  Nice one OnEyedJoe!

  And maybe add: "What if I was sent to warn you, just like you say JW are sent to warn church people? What do you think about people at the door who don't even want to listen to you?"