[Now for the rest of the story ... It begans again below with ### in front of the continuation]
Well, well, well ... well, well ... well, uhmmmmm ... this ought to be good ... I got to use my shinny well oiled and seasoned Apostate tools at the door today ... that's right, we Apostates go to the door too ... but ONLY to answer when JWs, Mormons and Avon calls ...
These two ladies were standing there ... one was obviously an Elder's wife ... say late 40s ... likely Aux. Pioneer for the month ... the other lady had that Reg. Pioneer high-voltage stare in her eyes ... and a hint of being of the Anointed ... she also claimed to know a Governing Body member ... at least was close enough to him to have a meal or two together ... so, she might have been a CO's wife, or an ex-Bethelite ... or Bethel-Lite.
They opened with a question about whether I believed in the Bible ... I thought to myself, "Oh Lord, oh Lord ... thank you Jesus, just what I wanted, a discussion about the Bible." ... I was not dressed, except for having a robe on, so I excused myself to get dressed ... and then returned, and stood outside with them ...
I asked that they repeat the question ... and then with that I started off ... this time I avoided mentioning the pedophile issue, because I wanted to try other tactics to reach them ... and you know what ... I think I may have found a way to break through the JW armor ... at the door at least. It took some effort to keep my composure and not sound like an ex-JW ... but I succeeded, and in the end, they even offered to shake my hands ... soooooo ... with that ...
I stated that the Bible is an interesting but disturbing book. I am amazed at how people have come to think it is inspired, given all the absurdities contained therein ... then, giving me that troubled JW look about my lacking faith in a book, they then asked if I believed in God ... to which I replied "yes" of course ... sooo ... now comes the old JW one-two punch where they ask if I know God's purpose for mankind and the earth ... to this I stated that, "I don't think anyone really knows God's purpose or intent with respect to the human race ... at least not when it comes to having any kind of relationship with us" ...
They asked then if I have ever read the Bible so as to know God's purpose for humanity. I stated, that I have read the Bible many times, that I have studied it topically, historically, in Hebrew and Greek (to some small extent) and I have studied it chapter by chapter in various Bible study programs ... ( I didn't bother to mention that there was some JW influence in these studies) ... but there were other programs I participated in ... so then, they next asked about what 'absurdities' I had in mind ... and this is where is gets really gooooood .... Stay tuned ...
Sorry, I have to run to Chicago for an appointment ... driving through millions of cars on the Tollway to get to the north side from the burbs ... sooooo ... I need to finish this then ... otherwise, I would not post in two parts ... BUT ... I will not make a new post, but rather amend and revise this one to finish the rest of the story. - Jim W.
### [Btw : They were at the door for about a half hour ... so this was good.]
... so then, they next asked about what 'absurdities' I had in mind ... and this is where is gets really gooooood .... I stated that a classic example is the fable of Noah where Fundamentalists insist that the entire earth was flooded to the tops of every mountain ... I pointed out to them that such an event is utterly impossible ... unless ... God waved his magic hand and changed the geological evidence to deceive modern scientists and geologists ... otherwise, the evidence is clear that the Global Flood could not and did not happen ...
... Oddly enough, the Reg. Pio lady admitted that the Global Flood had some problems and a good friend of hers is a Christian and believes in the flood ... without saying more about this, she then asked if I believe that the flood never happened ... to which I stated that likely a local flood happened, one that was either caused by a comet, or a breech in between the Mediterreanan Sea and what is now the Black Sea ... a flood that could have impacted the peoples in the area enough that the Jewish writers, known for using embellished allegory would have could have drawn upon to teach some primitive lesson in life and of God.
I mentioned the problems with the bad design of the Ark and how it would have not held up against such a fast flood that could fill the earth in only 40 days ... The Pioneer lady then brought up the watery deep that would have added to this flood ... to which I stated that the amount of water necessary to do that would have to force all the continients to float on water, and the water would extend beyond the earth's crust into the mantel where it would boil into a giant bomb ... and any watery canopy would be so far out into space to hold enough water, that it would have frozen and been unable to rain ... and THEN ...
... The Elder's wife said, "Oh that explains how the water could have been there all thouse centuries before Noah arrived on the scene, and then Jehovah let it loose when he was ready with the Ark." I wanted to barf at her stunning brain-deadness at what she just stated ... but I let it ride ...
... the Elder's wife then pops open the NWT and read a verse about Jesus referring to the flood, and then read verse about Peter referring to the flood, so it must have happened ... I then added that I agreed that it is likely based on a local flood that was embellished by Jewish writers ... but notice that neight Jesus nor Peter ever stated that the flood was Global, Earthwide.
Then the Pioneer Lady asked if this Biblical account was keeping me from believing in God ... I said no, as I told them early on, I believe in God ... I just can't accept this book the western Christian religions call the Bible as the Word of God ... after all it was compiled and decided upon by the Catholic Church, my original religion ... and I can't trust what the Catholic Church put together" ... well ... their jaws dropped ... you would have thought that I just entered the second coming of Jesus ...
I continued to nail the Bible again by drawing upon the Adam and Eve account ... I stated that an even more basic problem, one that goes to the core of the Salvation doctrine, and one that touches the heart of Christians in the entire planet is that of Adam and Eve ... it is even more absurd ... these ladies asked me why ... so I asked them who designed the human species ... they of course said that Jehovah did ... so, I continued: "He designed them such that when they sinned, they spread sin and death to all their children and to us ... and yet God said later on to the Jews that a child (son) shall not be put to death for the sins of the Parent (father) ... so here God completely contradicts himself ... and worst of all, he could have designed Adam and Eve to not pass along sin and death ... so, since we humans did not design ourselves ... then this entire problem rest on the shoulders of the one whom you call God, Jehovah ... it is his failed design that had so badly messed up the human race ... in addition to Adam and Eve playing a part ...
They looked at each other and at me with astonishment ... so then I continued with more ... "The problem I have with modern religions, especially the more fundamentalists type, is that they thinik they know it all, but they are very ignorant of science and history ... and worst of all some more rigid and cult-like think that they have a corner on the market of Truth ... but they live in denial and intellectual dishonesty ... and this blinds them to follow leaders that they do not even know, cannot name, and yet these men rule their lives with their own ignorant interpretations of the Bible ... I said that this was true whether it involved the Mormon 12 Apostles ot the Catholic college of Cardinals ... millions of people are absolutely controlled and deceived by these nearly annynmous men ...
This is when the Pio lady said she knew a member of the Governing Body, and even ate with him a couple of times ... I almost asked if it was Ted or Carry or Dan ... but I knew that would blow my cover ... ... but I pointed out that eating a couple of meals with a man does not mean you anything of the education, experience, or qualifications of a person who is the guardian of your eternal life. This is why I do not trust any of them. They could not really disagree ... I then stated that she did not name him ... who is he, I asked ... she did not reply.
So I picked back up and pointed out that I cannot trust any religious organization ... while the people may be sincere, they are merely followers ... often accepting blindly what some men have told them to believe ... intellectual honesty ... love for truth drives me to reject them all ... and reject their theories about the Bible, a book that is really not understood my most people ...people who merely use various texts from the Bible to prove a private interpretation ... I stated that I just cannot do that with a God who demands truth ...
They then tried to debate that there must be a "Truth" and place that God does reveal his instructions and divine directions ... [I knew where this was headed ] ... sooo ... the Elder's wife asked if I would be interested in at leaset studying the Bible to learn where the Truth may be found ... it was as if she didn't hear anything I had said up to this point ... so, I asked her this:
"If you were not married, but were told by some men that you were to amrry a man you never net, to read letters he wrote to someone else, who never called you, who never spent any time with you, who you never heard his voice, who never conversed with you whie you spoke to him ... what kind of relationship would you think you had? She almost got the point ... and then she said that she felt bad for me that I was so confused about God. I said that I am not confused, I just simply refuse to accept what men say about God, and will wait to see whether God ever contacts me ... I am not greedy ... just a post card to tell me he cares would be enough for a life time. At least I am giving God honesty ... But God does not do even that much ...
Their car group arrived and parked close by, watching ... so these ladies went into JW Donut mode ... and started looking at their watches ... so the Elder's wife then wanted to leave me with a parting scripture ... I said sure ... she read a verse about how the gate is narrow and few are the ones finding it ... she applied this to the great masses who are deceived but still there are some few who learn the Truth and get on the narrow path to life ... I retorted that David Koresh loved to read that verse to his few followers at Waco ... who believed that only they as a chosen few had found the True path to life ... she closed her Bible with a snap ...
I told here that I apprecaited what she was trying to say, and accept her sincereity ... but that I know nothing about her or her friend ... and cannot trust simply because some one tells me to ... they both then did something rather odd ...
They said that they really enjoyed talking with me, that I made them think ... and then the Elder's wife reached out to shake my hand ... smiled and then they left ... the Pio. Lady had become quiet near the end of the discussion and held her head down ... but I could not figure her out ... they offered no literature, and did not offer to return or send anyone to return ... so in that sense, I did well, because they knew that I was not a potential victim of their mind-control ... but ... the fact that they admitted that they were made to think at least tells me that I may be on to something good ... I made frequent references to Mormons and Catholics as ways to make in-roads into what is wrong with the Watchtower religion ... but never directly attacked their religion ... and this seems to have allowed them to talk calmly, and try to reason on the topics ... and ... unlike most JWs at the door, they did not jump around to different topics ... and try to be rational ... this speaks well of them ... Jim W.