Infinity versus nothing

by Fisherman 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Fisherman

  You can't apply the question, "what location" to when no space existed,

  It is believed that photons, and some sub-atomic particles (not being 3 dimensional) do not occupy space ( so it is believed) But the way I see it, every thing needs a location, being inside the universe and part of it. But getting back to my OP question, since the universe is believed to begin with the big bang, what caused it to become the big bang since something physical expanded becoming the universe, requiring location outside it to contain it, and energy to fuel its expansion. Where does the expanding universe exist now, space being part of it? Does space need some location to exist?
  
  
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  Fisherman

  Where is the location on earth 360.7 miles north of the North Pole? It does not exist; you cannot put a photon in there nor anything else that exists including the tiny physical substance of the big bang. How can non existing things change and become physical things?
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  ballistic

  [quote]It is believed that photons, and some sub-atomic particles (not being 3 dimensional) do not occupy space ( so it is believed) But the way I see it, every thing needs a location, being inside the universe and part of it. But getting back to my OP question, since the universe is believed to begin with the big bang, what caused it to become the big bang since something physical expanded becoming the universe, requiring location outside it to contain it, and energy to fuel its expansion. Where does the expanding universe exist now, space being part of it? Does space need some location to exist?[/quote]

  A couple of problems here. Firstly you assume that our human languages (which ever one) are capable of describing the nature of the universe, and secondly a similar issue, any reference to the concepts involved have to fit in with your pre-existing paradigms. You have a frame work in your mind of "how things are" and any new bit of information that comes along has to fit in there somewhere. Most people who have experienced infinity using psychedelic drugs will tell you that these are two fundamental problems when trying to describe it.
  
  
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  Fisherman

  the nature of the universe, and secondly a similar issue, any reference to the concepts involved have to fit in with your pre-existing paradigms.

  Physical no? and conforming to scientific realism? Or do you believe that the universe is like the trinity?
  
  
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  Rainbow_Troll

  the nature of the universe, and secondly a similar issue, any reference to the concepts involved have to fit in with your pre-existing paradigms.

  Physical no? and conforming to scientific realism? Or do you believe that the universe is like the trinity?

  Anyone who believes that light can behave like a wave or particle depending on the experiment may as well accept the Trinity. Tossing out the aether derailed astrophysics and turned Science into a mystical religion.
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  punkofnice

  This is the sort of questions we ask ourselves in our search for meaning in the universe. (Sorry, I haven't read the other responses yet).

  Of course, the universe doesn't owe us anything and there doesn't have to be a meaning to life just because we want one.

  Yes. I'd like to believe in grand design and a happy ever after. However, the stark reality is (to me at least, maybe not you), that there is nothing after this life. There is no grand design. It's all accidental. I wasn't there when things began and I am not qualified to sit in my armchair (I haven't got one, but ya know-), and state what it all came from.

  I exist here, day to day, accepting there is no meaning given. therefore, I find my own meaning in small things where I can. I'm just filling time before the total and utter oblivion of death.

  Ecclesiastes 9:5 was about spot on where it talks about..."For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten."

  Perhaps the writer of this had stumbled onto something :)
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  waton

  it is believed that photons, and some sub-atomic particles (not being 3 dimensional) do not occupy space) Fisherman

  photons in a vacuum also do not occupy time, but time does not disappear because of that.

  photons, in movement, exist in two space dimensions, but space has not disappeared because of that, so: at least time might be fundamental and some kind of ur space.

  Positive and negative energy might balance to zero in an equation or on [a] balance, but that does not mean zero, but 2 energies. The same with matter, vs. antimatter, not zero matter, but 2 matters. (or a lot of energy if the equation is solved)

  Infinity is just that, going from negative infinity through zero to positive infinity still gives you only infinity,

  Gravity, a result of matter via Higgs, slows down, even halts movement through time, but that does not make time disappear, because it exists regardless of that distinct gravity field. so:

  with both time and energy, ur dimensions possibly fundamental, the conditions are set for pre-big bang scenarios, beyond our ken, imho.
  
  
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  ttdtt

  so in what location did the substance that expanded into the time/space universe exist before the big bang?

  It didnt expand into anything. Thats not the way it worked.

  Also not a question you can answer here, but read some of these books if you want a better understanding.

  https://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/1451624468

  https://www.amazon.com/Wrinkles-Time-George-Smoot/dp/0688123309/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486988393&sr=1-3&keywords=george+smoot
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  Fisherman

  Anyone who believes that light can behave like a wave or particle depending on the experiment may as well accept the Trinity.

  Enjoy this comment very much also! (But it doesn't prove the trinity any more than St. Patty's Shamrock.)
  
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  waton

  Anyone who believes that light can behave like a wave or particle depending on the experiment may as well accept the Trinity.

  an apt visualization of the wave-particle duality of light is in ocean waves. They are a rotary local movement traveling through the Ocean, but become forward hitting matter on the beach, and can kill you once the energy is released in the form of forward, downward motion, the bore.