Why are Jehovah's Witnesses determined to be WRONG (about saying JUH-HO-VUH and JEE-Suss)?

by Terry 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry
    DID YOU KNOW?
    All throughout history in Greek, Hebrew, and Latin languages - there was no J sound! NO JAY SOUND.
    Why did Christians start using a non-Hebrew name for the Son of God?
    BLAME THE PAGANS!
    A name that can't even be pronounced in Greek or Hebrew because neither alphabet has the J sound changed everything!

    In fact, (brace yourself) THERE WAS NO SUCH NAME as Jesus.
    The actual Hebrew name was:
    יהושע (yehoshu'a, and we think of that as JOSHUA.
    A related Old Testament language is Aramaic and so:
    ישוע (yeshu


    Are you still with me?
    I can keep going if you keep on reading...


    Alexander the Great conquered the ancient world country by country and when he died all those conquered lands were split up into kingdoms by Alexander's generals.
    So what?
    So this had an EXTRAORDINARY IMPACT on language, culture, philosophy, and religion. GREEK was Sort of like a giant meteor impact.
    Most ancient JEWS (ha! see the letter J?) started speaking GREEK and eventually lost the ability to read or to talk in HEBREW or ARAMAIC. Greek became the international common language.

    Jesus is very rarely DIRECTLY quoted in the NT in Aramaic. He was not speaking Greek but the NT is (thanks to the 70 translators) written in Greek.

    What good were the ancient writings (Old Testament) to Jews if they couldn't read them?
    None. 200 years before B.C. became A.D. a body of 70 translators set to work and out comes a NEW version of the Hebrew and Aramaic into GREEK (it was called Septuagint which means the 70).
    (Hebrew scholars always and still do learn Hebrew and can read it and write it) but ordinary folks did not/could not.

    If I haven't lost you yet - let's go one level deeper, shall we?

    When copyists (scribes) started copying the Bible and they came to the letter I (pronounced yuh) they put a flourish in the script - a sort of tail (called a swash) and it looks like this: J.
    Aha! It was pretty but now it became pretty confusing.
    YESHUA became JOSHUA and I Ἰησοῦς (iesous) became JESUS.
    Get it? Those are ALL the very SAME name!Translations into GERMAN used the German letter J for those words and why? BECAUSE IN GERMAN, J is pronounced like Y.
    Christ or Christos is PAGAN Greek. Jesus is pagan Greek.
    Jehovah is Catholic Spanish derived from pagan Latin and mispronounced with J sound.


    So you get - in the Restoration/Lutheran Middle Ages - Bibles that had ‘Jacob’ and ‘Joseph’ and ‘Joshua’ and ‘Jesus’ and ‘Judah’ - all spelled with J BUT PRONOUNCED AS Y (would be in English).
    The German ‘Jude’ is pronounced ‘Y’hudah’. It means ‘Jew’, which is an English word derived from - guess where - ‘Jude’.
    Except English DOES have a ‘J’ sound.
    This also means there was no such name as JEHOVAH either!

    Four Hebrew letter (yod he vav he) was not pronounced for fear of "taking God's name in vain." יְהֹוָה‎ Yəhōwā, Remove the vowels - they were never written down...

    Years later, some cultures began using the "I" for the vowel sound and "J" for a "Y" sound. It was not until around 1500 AD that the letter J took on the "dg" sound we are familiar with today.
    The name JEHOVAH was invented by Catholic scholar (and anti-Semite) Raymundus Martini in 1270 A.D.
    English translator William Tyndale selected Martini's Jehovah for God's name and introduced it to English speakers in 1522. English speakers mistakenly used the J (sound juh) instead of Y sound (yuh).

    SUMMING UP in CONCLUSION
    Nobody used the names Jehovah or Jesus historically until the sixteenth century A.D. or Common Era.
    Pagan names were used employing Greek and Latin and later mispronounced in English as variants.)

    If you are sensitive about saying American INDIANS instead of "Native Americans" - then be consistent about Yeshua too. Or - if you are a Jehovah's Witness and so pedantic about everything else - why not be accurate as possible when it comes to the Name of God and His son?

    Biblical scholars around the world use YAHWEH because it is as close as possible as we can get but JW's are pig-headed, obstinate, and - duh - contrarian in every detail.
    Jesus spoke in Aramaic but is rarely EXACTLY quoted in our Pagan New Testament.
    "And these leftovers from Aramaic caused most scholars to say he probably spoke most of the time in Aramaic, which was a Semitic language — it was related to Hebrew, and very much like Hebrew in Judea and Galilee at that time. This means we probably don’t have the very words of Jesus all the time because he didn’t speak in Greek, and what we have is Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek originally, and we read it in our translations. And so, even if he sometimes taught in Greek, which he may well have, readers of English today don’t have the very words because they’re reading English."

  • carla
    carla

    I asked my jw the same thing (well not exactly like your explanation) and he said they say it that way because of 'tradition'. Then I brought up some jw quote about how they don't do things just because of 'tradition(s)'. So naturally I had to start mispronouncing his name to see if he liked that I decided to start using a different pronunciation because in some countries they say his name that way, it is a tradition as well as language difference. He didn't like it all. I asked how he thought God would like everybody mispronouncing His name AND telling everybody else they must also mispronounce His name or be damned, err, zapped out of existence per dubland theology?

    One could also replace the vowels with any of choice, jeehevee, jahovoe, etc....

    You can imagine how this conversation went. Ridiculous in the extreme. In the end he decided that his fearless leaders in NY must know more than the both of us and will stick with their tradition.

  • Terry
    Terry

    **Correction**
    Above I made the statement:
    Jesus is very rarely DIRECTLY quoted in the NT in Aramaic.
    He was not speaking Greek but the NT is (thanks to the 70 translators) written in Greek.

    Remove the phrase inside the (parenthesis). The Septuagint translators only translated the O.T. not the N.T.

  • Terry
    Terry

    So why do we call the Hebrew hero of Jericho Joshua and the Christian Messiah Jesus? Because the New Testament was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic. Greeks did not use the sound sh, so the evangelists substituted an S sound. Then, to make it a masculine name, they added another S sound at the end. The earliest written version of the name Jesus is Romanized today as Iesous.

    The initial J didn’t come until much later.
    That sound was foreign to Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Note:
    Not even English distinguished J from I until the mid-17th century.

    Thus, the 1611 King James Bible refers to Jesus as “Iesus” and his father as “Ioseph.”
    The current spelling likely came from Switzerland, where J sounds more like the English Y. When English Protestants fled to Switzerland during the reign of the Catholic Queen Mary I, they drafted the Geneva Bible and used the Swiss spelling. Translators in England adopted the Geneva spelling by 1769.

    Jew (Yehudah)

  • Longlivetherenegades
    Longlivetherenegades

    Interesting, what do Jehovah’s witnesses teach and preach as truth that they didn't inherit, source from somewhere else. What?

    Even the name JEHOVAH they use as God's name and go about using it to condemn others as not using in their worship to God does not originate with anything whatsoever called JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION. I repeat

    what do Jehovah’s witnesses teach and preach as truth that they didn't inherit, source from somewhere else. What?


    They even had to harness different Bible commentaries of those they call CHRISTENDOM, preachers, teachers and practitioners of pagan festivals in their own publications.

  • waton
    waton
    BECAUSE IN GERMAN, J is pronounced like Y.

    Terry, not so, the Y in the european languages is pronounced like in ueber,

    the end of the alphabet : ex why zee (zet), sounds there : ex uebsilon* tzet. see also Ypres.

    Important too that jesus never used the name when addressing the father. recording it would be of utmost importance if it mattered.

    * umlaut u"

  • iloowy.goowy
    iloowy.goowy

    Right on waton!

    This silliness about insisting English speakers pronounce names in Hebrew not English, is for the birds. Jesus sounds like Hay-soos in Spanish and there is nothing wrong with that. Because they speak Spanish. It is just so pointless to keep beating the dead horse, or dead Spanish monk in this case. In the Spanish of Martini's time the name was pronounced closer to the Hebrew consonants, languages change over time José, Let's move on, nothing much to see here about the tetragram except the same old tired stories conspiracy mongers love.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Waton, thank you!
    I should have spent thirty seconds looking that up on Google!

  • Terry
    Terry

    Iloowy, goowy said: This silliness about insisting English speakers pronounce names in Hebrew not English, is for the birds.

    ______

    I feel that Jehovah's Witnesses IF THEY WERE SERIOUS scholars themselves, would make an "adjustment" toward being more accurate if, for no other reason, they have made a FETISH out of using the name.
    Encyclopedia Britannica:
    Early Christian writers, such as St. Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used a form like Yahweh, and this pronunciation of the tetragrammaton was never really lost. Many Greek transcriptions also indicated that YHWH should be pronounced Yahweh.

    More "respectful" and more nearly accurate are not, however, to be expected of this organization. They are contrarian in every way possible to the point of absurdity.
    The instance of "torture stake" is practically pathological, IMHO.

    The elite Governing Body has never, ever been afraid of "taking the Lord's Name in vain" as evidenced by all the false prophecies they've published for over a hundred years. Always in the "name of Jehovah."

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Re: The Real Name of God

    What did Nehemia Gordon find in the Vatican Junk-Box?

    Apparently the real name of God.

    Hebrew Luke and John found in Vatican Junk Box – NehemiasWall.com

    It is always fun to see Nehemia Gordon's enthusiasm over discoveries related to God's personal name.

    However, I for one do not think it is at all important to know the exact Hebrew pronounciation of the Father's name or the Son's name for that matter. And I don't believe that proclaiming God's name means anything more than teaching and demonstrating His Person, attributes and character. The Pharisees may have known God's personal name and used it often, yet they were of another father.

    The fact that there are first century fragments of John and Luke's gospels in Hebrew does not prove they predated those written in Greek. Nor does it prove that God’s name was in the originals. The fact is that none of the thousands of ancient Greek manuscripts or fragments thereof have the name.

    That being said, I do believe that Yahovah with the accent on the last syllable is most likely right on. Nonetheless, I have no problem with those using Jehovah, or Yahweh and believe those are more accurate renderings of the divine name. In other words l don't think it's an issue of any importance.

    If I had never heard my earthly father's first name, I would love him no less today....because I know him and what he did and what he was like.

    ONLY those who pride themselves in knowing and using and teaching the name, should at least get it right...as Terry points out.

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