RUSSIA: Many meetings raided and evidence planted

by ZAPPA-ESQUE 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ZAPPA-ESQUE

  Raids on Jehovah's Witness premises now take place more than three times per month. These raids on doctrinally pacifist* religious communities often involve many heavily armed and camouflaged officials, with the "discovery" of apparently planted banned "extremist" literature. Legal dissolution of communities can follow.

  http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2228

  For sure the Ruskies are being dick-heads - as per usual - but this really does smack of a bit of Kharma !
  

  *Exception being the treatment of their own members eg Disfellowshipping etc/ shunning and related ...

  WT should not think it is exclusively they who are targets in Russia - Many if not most non-Orthodox groups have come under the Kosh-sack /
  
  
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  StephaneLaliberte

  I fully disagree with the Russians approach. They have continually banned, jailed, placed in gulags, and even killed people for practicing their religion. The end result is the same: When you try to force ideas onto people, they’ll fight for their right to retain their own beliefs.

  We all agree that people should have absolute freedom of speech and association. The problem however is that there are organizations and individuals who temper with those rights; the state should take actions against those in particular.

  For instance, an organization promoting and enforcing shunning should face consequences. Sure, Jehovah’s Witnesses could keep advising their members to “stay away” from bad influences, including old members, but they would not have the right to 1) sever against someone for not keeping up this order and 2) preach and strongly encourage the shunning of family members.

  Freedom of association, speech and the core unit of the family are sacred and should not be influenced by any outside forces.

  In order to protect those sacred rights, the state should not hesitate to take actions. For instance, if elders acted against someone for not keeping up shunning as they see it fit, they would be exposed to a criminal record and 30 days in jail. I would be amazed if any of these man would willingly take such a risk in order to uphold a teaching like that.

  As for promoting shunning of family members, the watchtower would expose itself to exemplary fines and would be ordered to write an article in their magazines reporting the judgement of the court.

  With these type of measures, people would understand that the government is not against freedom of speech, association and religion. On the contrary, it acts to protect it by prosecuting those who try to obstruct such rights.
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  DJS

  Every proselytizing religion closely monitors the laws and social conditions of countries where they desire to spread their infection, I mean teachings. The DarkTower is no different, and it is a certainty that they have had dedicated resources and intense discussions about these issues for decades.

  Having said that, the DarkLords were without a doubt keenly aware that Russia enacted its extremism law in 2002, just months after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the US. Two of the law's provisions defined religious extremism as promoting the "exclusivity, superiority, or lack of equal worth of an individual" and "incitement of religious discord" in connection with acts or threats of violence.

  Officials began to interpret the first provision as promoting the superiority of a belief, and in 2007, Russia amended the law to allow prosecution for inciting religious discord even in the absence of any threat or act of violence.

  Again, the DarkLords clearly understood these laws and their interpretations.

  Since every group believes its own dogma to be in some sense superior, any group could face an extremism charge. And since inciting "religious discord" is no longer linked to advocating or perpetrating violence, those advocating religious views face potential criminal charges of incitement. Other religious groups wishing to practice openly in Russia either don’t have these teachings as part of their religious dogma or they have removed them from materials distributed and teachings preached openly in Russia. In other words, they complied with the law.

  The DarkTower is NOT the only religion that has felt the effects of these laws. Islam (one Russian court even banned the Koran, but it was overturned on appeal), Mormons and others have come under scrutiny and felt the pressures of these laws. But the DarkLords are the ONLY religion that refused to remove the illegal references from their written materials and teachings until they had seriously pissed off Vlad and his Impalers. I am not including Scientology in this.

  Bad things happen when you tug on Vlad's cape.

  None of us should be shocked that Russia is being Russia. The DarkLords knew this as well. Using draconian practices to make their case, if true, should not surprise us, and IT SHOULD NOT HAVE SURPRISED THE DARK LORDS. Aren’t they supposed to be faithful and ‘discreet’ or ‘wise?’

  The DarkLords’ arrogance is the cause of this, and they were willing to martyr their own sheep to prove their point. Stephanie (above) hit the nail on the head as to the very good reasons Russia has enacted and enforces these laws.

  They deserve none of our sympathy.
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  Village Idiot

  Instead of taking dictatorial positions, any nation which sees the JWs or anyone as a pathetic anti-social organization that violates societies norms should use television to out them. And no, I'm not referring to sound-bites from the worthless media. I'm more suggesting a regularly broadcasting television channel - the equivalent of the National Public Radio - which would dedicate a good commercial free half hour to the subject. It would not only be about the Witnesses but should include every authoritarian religion.

  But then we don't have the imagination in this country to have such a thing much less do those hard-power barbarians.
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  I certainly believe that governments should monitor religion and get the WTS to change all of its practices that go beyond the law.

  But if the information in the OP is correct, then I think Russia is going the wrong way about it.

  'Planting evidence' - WTF?!
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  Mephis

  Been going on a while LoveUni. Think the WBTS even produced a video, from security camera recordings, of police doing it. The Russian state is behaving appallingly in how it's using this law. But as the article in the OP highlights, it's certainly not just JWs getting targeted by it.
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  OUTLAW

  RUSSIA: Many meetings raided and evidence planted..

  Evidence planted?..

  .........................
  

  More Likely..

  JW's Smuggling In Banned WBT$ Literature..
  
  
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  DJS

  We have the same conversations about this topic each time it is posed. The law is now 14 years old. The dubs continue to be free to practice their stupid religion. The courts have been patient with them, overturning several judgments against them and ruling in their favor on numerous occasions. Russia's democracy isn't perfect; name one that is.

  Singing "Imagine" and group hugging while being shocked and aghast that Vlad and his Impalers are being . .. all Vladish and Impalish is about the most childish thing that can be posted on this OP. I prefer reality. Russia being Russian and Vlad being Vlad-ian is not new nor news.

  But I'm certain that someone will top it. It's early in the OP and there are a lot of hysterical reactionaries here.

  The laws are getting more strict, and the courts are losing patience. All the dubs have to do to comply with the laws, which IMHO are very good laws, is to remove all references to the superiority of their religion over all others in their literature and teachings, such as Armageddon where all other religions and governments are destroyed, and practices and teachings such as prohibiting blood transfusions, shunning members and destroying families, to name a few that the Russian law finds objectionable and illegal.

  Had the DarkLords complied in 2002 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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  biblexaminer

  I say "GO PuTIN!!"

  True Cristianity has no problem with such circumstances. Only 'institutionalized religion' has an issue.

  Jesus said "..where TWO or more are gathered in my name, there I am also". This simple arrangement has nothing to fear. It is sacred and protected by the Holy Spirit.

  True Cristianity has even prospered within the totalitarian Watchtower institution and despite its leadership's best efforts to weed it out. So it will have no issue in Russia.

  But watchtower is screwed.
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  StephaneLaliberte

  The problem with banning a religion is that all those in it, like my Dad, think that it is because Satan is persecuting them. If the state would focus on one particular teaching at a time and not try to stop the activities of the entire religion, than I believe the individual members would be forced to make up their mind on those individual teachings alone.

  Sure, they JW could turn around and try to present it as a test of faith and loyalty, but when that test is based on the concept of advocating and enforcing shunning... I'm not sure that would work for the JWs.