NWT support of John 1:1. Punching holes in it

by LevelThePlayingField 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  TD

  Vanderhoven,
  

  In Jn 20 Thomas is identifying Jesus as The God

  The use of the uppercase in English conveys a meaning that's not present in the Greek text

  In Greek (Ancient & Modern) I'm, "the Thomas" when I'm the subject of a sentence, but that shouldn't be understood any differently than we would understand the unadorned name in English.

  In other words, "Thomas checked his watch" and "Ο Θωμάς έλεγξε το ρολόι του" mean exactly the same thing. The use of the definite article in Greek shouldn't automatically be understood in either an exclusive or special sense.
  

  Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that Thomas was not necessarily acknowledging the Diety of Christ. I'm saying that the grammar does not identify him with the person of God.
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  Vanderhoven7

  Hi TD

  Seems rather clear to me that Thomas was identifying Jesus as "the Lord of me and the God of me."

  What do you think he was saying then?
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  TD

  Vanderhoven
  

  Seems rather clear to me that Thomas was identifying Jesus as "the Lord of me and the God of me

  I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your theological perspective; I'm pointing out that translation alone is not enough to get you there.
  

  Maybe I didn't explain it very well, because you're still using the upper case in English where Greek grammar does not necessarily demand it.

  Whether Thomas was expressing orthodoxy (i.e. Jesus partakes of the Divine nature) or whether he was identifying Jesus with the person of God (Sabellianism) or whether he was using "lord" and "god" simply as honorifics (Arianism) are theological arguments that can't be resolved by translation alone.
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  Wonderment

  Vanderhoven7:

  TD is right when he wrote: Whether Thomas was expressing orthodoxy (i.e. Jesus partakes of the Divine nature) or whether he was identifying Jesus with the person of God (Sabellianism) or whether he was using "lord" and "god" simply as honorifics (Arianism) are theological arguments that can't be resolved by translation alone.

  Having Thomas exclaim of Jesus: My lord and my god (or, My Lord and my God) is the English way of saying what we have in the Greek text (The lord of me or the god of me; or: The Lord of me and the God of me.) English translations commonly drop the article because it is not necessary in translation, and it would not add any meaningful nuance.

  That is why I pointed to Scriptures as John 17.3; 20.31 (we may add John 14.28; 20.17 to those) if we want to make the appropriate sense of Thomas declaration in the light of other Johannine statements. On the other hand, those who seek to portray Jesus as God will refer to John 1.1; 8.58; 10.30, etc., in mainstream versions to make their case.