Question #2 for JW's

BoogerMan

How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

w14 11/15 p. 30 - So in the fulfillment of Revelation chapter 11, the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached “in sackcloth” for three and a half years.

Watchtower November 15, 2014, p. 30 - Revelation 11:7 says that it is "the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss" which kills the 'two witnesses'.

Since the wild beast of Rev. 11:7 is claimed to be the United Nations, how could a non-existent organisation (which didn't originate until 1945) fulfill a prophecy 26 years earlier? Even the League of Nations did not come into existence until 1920.

Disillusioned JW

Rutherford originally taught the beast which went into the abyss was the World Court at the Hague (which later became part of the League of Nations, and the World Court is now known as the International Court of Justice - now "the principal judicial organ of the United Nations") and that it came out of the abyss as the League of Nations. The WTS creates a number of inconsistencies when it revises certain of its doctrines. However, even the original teaching of the beast which went into the abyss is problematic if applied to the WTS teaching regarding the two witnesses, since the World Court is not an entity which caused Rutherford and companions to get jailed.

The WTS should be much more consistent and systematic in their teachings and put much more thought into what they create as new teachings, and in what they create as revised teachings.

scholar

BoogerMan

How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

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The simple fact of the matter is that the 'two witnesses' do not specifically refer to any prominent individual or individuals during that climactic period from 1914-1919. These refer to all of the anointed remnant at that time or as the Revelation Climax describes them as 'faithful anointed Christians (p.164 pars.10-14).

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How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

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The 'killing of the two witnesses' by the ' is the wild beast which came out of the abyss or sea' refers not to the later League of Nations but is described as a beast with seven heads and ten horns refers to the current ruling powers at that time which originated from the original entire political system which consisted of the historical world powers down to that present time from 1914-1919 period.. Later, an image of that wild beast was observed and that beast became the League and the United Nations.

scholar JW

neat blue dog

For once Scholar was helpful! (Not that the information is true obviously, but it clarifies JW doctrine.)

Vidqun

Scholar's interpretation, although interesting, can easily be disproved by referencing JW theology:

1) The two anointed prophets, members of the 144000, are to be sealed after the breaking of the sixth seal, a future event.

2) If the 42 months of the trampling are to run concurrently with the 1260 days of preaching, starting in October 1914, three and a half years from there would bring one to March 1918. Federal warrants for the arrest of Rutherford and company were issued May 7, 1918.

3) According to the general chronology of Daniel and Revelation the two prophets will be appearing towards the middle of the Tribulation, after the sixth trumpet blast.

4) Beast from the abyss was created in 1945, after the Second World War had ended. Coming out of the abyss means it has become active, also a future event.

BoogerMan

@ Scholar:

This article is too long to submit here, but the highlighted portions are the org's own evidence that its failed prophecy of armageddon & the "rapture" for 1914 (as well as Rutherford's coup) was what caused its biggest problems - not a few guys getting jailed! Many Bible Students (BS) woke up to the B.S.)

w55 3/15 p. 175 Part 6—1914 Date Verified - Toward the end of 1916 Russell began to fail rapidly;he died aboard a train near Pampa, Texas, October 31. Following Brother Russell’s death, (1916) years of crisis set in, producing within the organization the pressures of opposition, judgment and cleansing. (due largely to the predicted armageddon not occurring as predicted!) After such a gigantic build-up of warning witness which had occurred with respect to that prophetic date of 1914, (armageddon) many of the associates became weary of well-doing. Rebelliousness among congregation elders came to the surface, and unhealthy spiritual conditions in general set in,

p.s. Ever heard heard of David Livingstone and his ilk who preached the good news to Africans, Chinese, & other parts of the world in the 19th century – well before JW's ever did?

waton

How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

BM: was not the release of the wt administrators from the penitentiary in Atlanta billed by wt doctrine doctors billed as proof that "Babylon the great had fallen", now: "had a fall" ?

Personal misfortune of wt heavies seem to them always be cosmic shaking events. causing shaking heads instead.

Carl Sagan about cosmic events:" [wt*] announced the end of the world, but nobody noticed"

*prominent religion

Judgerussellford

I don't know about rutherford and sons, but my buddy at work who follows Torah and I were talking about the two witnesses just a few days ago. We came to the conclusion that the two witnesses had to possibly be Moses and Elijah. Based solely on the transfiguration and no further research. We haven't had the time to look further into it.

dropoffyourkeylee

A little off topic, but I think the original teaching from the Russell days was that the two witnesses were the Old Testament and the New Testament. One of many teachings that Rutherford changed post 1919.

Vidqun

Judgerussellford, according to Revelation chronology the transfiguration would be a future occurrence when Jesus comes in kingly power. The disciples thought they were Moses and Elijah but Jesus did not confirm their assumption. Because of not being named and being a part of the 144000, it is more realistic to believe that they would display the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Malachi prophesied that Elijah would come. Jesus named John the Baptist as being this Elijah. But he did not say that an Elijah figure would not come again.

Dropoffyourkeylee, that is similar to Seventh Day Adventist teaching. They view the two witnesses as representing the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah).

Question #2 for JW's

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