Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality...

by logansrun 151 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  William Penwell

  by Bob Conway:

  ...the main reason that so many of us have rejected fundamentalism: Absolutism. There's this insistence upon our being slaves to one thing or another, or of there being only one ultimate good choice that we can possibly make (e.g., to toe the line drawn by St. Paul and spend unlimited time in heaven or else reject St. Paul's formula and suffer interminably in a lake of fire). Everything is either black or white, God or Satan, salvation or damnation to the fundamentalist mindset. It is dualism in its most extreme form.

  The fundamentalist world view doesn't just limit the options available to human beings -- it actually has the audacity (or paucity of imagination) to attempt to limit God. This is reflected in some of the rhetoric you hear from the so-called religious right: "These liberal politicians have removed God from our classrooms." Oh, really?! It is as though God Him/Her/Itself is so constrained by the straight jacket imposed upon Him/Her/It by the fundamentalist concept of God that a few puny pointy-headed liberals like me can actually kick Him/Her/It out of a school classroom. How interesting.

  The problem, I believe, is fear. You actually hear fundamentalists calling themselves "God fearing" people. What???! The clay fears the Potter???! The possibility that the Universe may have been created not only in black and white, not only in shades of gray, but with an infinite palette of colors is just too much for such a mind to try to imagine. The fundamentalist is actually intimidated by the full grandeur of Creation and thus accepts instead a small, shabby, over-simplified version of reality.

  So the imagination shuts down, and the fearful mind clings instead to The Book. If it ain't written in The Book, then it couldn't possibly be true. And then the fundamentalist even tries to read rather selectively from The Book! About all I ever heard preached in The Bible Baptist Church back home was that God has put us into a highly dangerous Universe in which Satan lurks around every corner and is hiding under every bed. Strict adherence to (their interpretation of) The Book is our only chance at escaping unending torture. Huh????!

  Bob C.
• 

  seven006

  Hey, keep my monkey out of this. This is a serious thread...well at least it was.

  Life of Brian is one of those English comedies isn't it? I just don't get English humor. It's like taking a shot of Novocain right into my temples.

  Dave
• 

  Ravyn

  .org

  Ravyn
• 

  Ravyn

  and just how do you know that it isn't Bellatucadnos who is kissing you each morning the sun rises and Cathubodva each time it sets?

  Ravyn
• 

  LittleToe

  Rayvn:
  The names have been changed to protect the innocent

  Dave:
  Monty Python is like the bible - if you don't get it you keep on reading until there's a breakthrough - just hoping that it isn't accompanied with lots of red stuff

  Will:
  IMHO half of the problem here is absolutism (a lesson learned so well in our sojourn in the borg).
  Christianity is not just made up of Liberals and Fundamentalists.
  Extremes of anything are usually bad, and the truth is oft to be found somewhere in the middle.

  The thread began with an example of Fundamentalism, whilst bearing a more general title relating to Christianity. The few Christians who have responded to this thread appear pretty reasonable, for the most part. That should probably say something, but it's not for me to say what it is that it actually says

  (Simon - why isn't there a "tongue in cheek" emoticon, or would that just look obscene?)

  (I'll rephrase that...)

  (... Simon - why isn't there a "tongue in cheek" emoticon??)
• 

  Kenneson

  I just noted this thread--and it is VERY lengthy, so I have not read all of it. I am late in getting on the bandwagon, but I want to respond to Bradley's original post comments: "Jesus doesn't save. Save yourself."

  I find the title of this thread puzzling: "Christianity promotes a helpless victim mentality." Yet, how are you Bradley not a victim if you need to "save yourself"? Why do you feel a need to "save yourself"? And save yourself from what? If I don't believe I need Jesus to "save me," why do I need to "save myself," unless I am also a victim?
• 

  logansrun

  Kenneson,

  I must acknowledge that the original post I made in this thread was not meant to be taken all too literally. I wrote in a poetic frame of mind -- not meant for strict logic-chopping. Nevertheless....

  I do believe that the Christian message if taken literally and thought over to it's logical conclusion does promote a victim mentality that is unhealthy and unproductive. Anytime one must look to an outside source for their happiness or validation is wrong, in my opinion. There is no self-actualization for these types -- it's all Jesus-actualization.

  As for my pithy comment, "save yourself" -- I'm not sure why you take issue with this. Let me expand on those two words. You don't need an external force, person or religion to find happiness and self-esteem. Over-reliance on anything is not a good thing -- especially when the thing you are relying on is as untrustworthy as faith. Being proactive, taking personal responsibility and searching for your own meaning doesn't make one a victim. All the same, let's not argue over my words in this matter. It's not the Gospel you know

  Bradley
• 

  seven006

  
  <<<Dave: Monty Python is like the bible - if you don't get it you keep on reading until there's a breakthrough - just hoping that it isn't accompanied with lots of red stuff >>>

  Little Toe,

  I have read the bible and I do "get it". The problem is, "I get it" on a different level and in a different light than you do.

  I'll make you a promise, if you can go out and find a talking snake and bring it back to me to talk with I will abandon all my beliefs on the subject, retract everything I have ever said on the subject and fly back to Monty Python land and go to church with you.

  In fact, if they ever find Noah's Ark and can show that it was big enough and designed well enough to hold two or seven each of the 12 million species of animals on the earth I will also retract my statements and become a Christian.

  I don't feel I'm asking for much. Two simple tangible pieces of evidence and I'm a changed man. Now don't go thinking this is an impossible task. After all, these events have been presented in the bible as fact so it must be true.

  Dave

  PS, I would appreciate the talking snake you find be a nonpoisonous one and speaks English. A Scottish accent will also be acceptable.
• 

  LittleToe

  Dave:
  My comment was more aimed at an appreciation of fine British comedy, in the form of "Monty Python". Seeing as you "get" the bible message, keep persevering with "Monty Python" and you should eventually get that, too (I REALLY need a tongue in cheeck emoticon!!!)

  It seems that every snake I meet instantly becomes a detractor of everything I have to say. All they do is say "Hisssssss!!!".
  Maybe if you ask Rayvn. Apparently it was only the snake who talked without a forked tongue lying...

  I notice that you take your choices of evidence from the book of Genesis, which was likely only complied by Moses, from a further ten books.
  Can't I show you how to turn water into wine, instead?
  It takes about six weeks, but tastes really good
• 

  seven006

  Littel Toe you pain in the butt,

  If you can turn water into 18 year old single malt scotch I'll be your friend for life.

  Your observation is correct. I do pick on Genius because it is the beginning of the investigation. I also have issues with burning bushes, talking mules, water walking, and feeding multitudes with a few pieces of bread,and couple sardines. I also have a huge problem with telling some guy to go kill his son to prove that he loved god.

  It's actually simple. I have three sons. They are my life and I love them more than life itself. I have never asked them to prove that they loved me by trying to kill anyone. I also don't ask them to tell me how great I am on a continual basis because I got their pain in the ass JW mom drunk so I could have sex with her that resulted in giving them life.

  I am not so insecure with who I am to demand constant praise from my kids. Nor do not play games with my kids so that they constantly have to do homicidal things to prove they love me. I also do not demand their devotion with the threat of death if they don't.

  I am a much better father than that.

  To me, I am a better father than the god of the bible and have a much lower level of insecurities.

  Put all that together and the god of the bible is either an extremely insecure psychopathic homicidal serial killer or I'm god.

  If I'm god, then I want all the money that people give to their churches in my name.

  God needs a new Porsche, the old one has a blown engine.

  Dave