When did the Great Crowd start forming?
by Vanderhoven7 35 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Crazyguy
If you read revelations it seems to elude to the idea that the greatcrowd are those gathered during the time of the great tribulation and include those that have died before. Rev chapter 5 i believe tells dead ones to wait until others are gathered then all are standing before the throne in heaven. The 144k are just a group that is part of the great crowd not seperate from it.
Then the book indicates that all these would come back to earth and reign as priests as a holy nation. Lets also be clear that in the original greek in chapter 5 they are not kings and they do not reign over the earth but on it.
-
James Mixon
How is this possible if the Bible says they are "all sealed in the tribulation" Rev. 7.
They can't be sealed today, because we are NOT in the tribulations now,
nor have we been in history. In fact if they are being sealed from the Apostles era
the tribulation has been running 2000 years, which makes no sense Biblically.
-
Crazyguy
The jws wrote all the stuff they wrote because they thought that the tribulation started in 1914. But the fact is the book of revelations and many things written in the NT was a repeat of what was written in the old testament. Even the apocalyptic nature of Revelations was a throw back to what was written in some of the minor prophets books like Zechariah i believe.
But thats not all, they idea that ones spirit would be gathered in heaven people would be judged on thier heart conditions and then the survivers would come back to earth is all taken from the Egyptian book if the dead. Jesus battling a dragon and all the symbology with beast and men that are half scorpions is all a throw back to the Babylonian and Sumerian religious writings. In the end the bible is a compulation of religious writings from Persia, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt and Greece.
-
myelaine
dear Crazyguy...
Rev. 6:9-11 these are souls under the alter who were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
The GC have washed their robes but there is no indication that they were slain for their testimony...the language and scene is more evocative of a last minute "revival". (Yay!!)
The 144,000 can be separate from the GC because other scriptures indicate that they follow the Lamb where ever He goes and at the time of the GT the Lamb is standing in israel an actual place on earth. zech. 14:1-5, rev. 14:1, luke 21:20-22)...the GC are taken out of the GT which happens on earth. -
Crazyguy
Go to Rev. 5:9-10 read then read chapter 7:9 compare both verses 9 the group described there is one in the same. -
-
prologos
Where did the early "Anointed" come from? the people with an earthly hope
where do the current "anointed" (under 80 years of age) come from? the earthly OS members of the future (after-Armageddon) Great Crowd.
so: The great crowd and the twelve tribes of Rev 7 are related, if not identical. now, if only this would be real and not only a story with such brilliant features like talking snakes, asses.
-
myelaine
Crazyguy, the group "described" in rev 5:8 are the 4 living creatures, and the 24 elders. The words of 5:9-10 are the prayers of the saints...and THEY sang...These saints have been "redeemed OUT OF every tribe and tongue and people and nation"...(all jews) rev. 14:1,3,4 (redeemed from AMONG men) they are essentially selected from all parts of the earth rev 7:1,3-4...8
the GC are a multitude OF all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues.
-
Connie
Hi,
The early church never taught only 144000 would go to heaven. Estimates have at least 250,000 Jews in the early church, and then counting thousands of gentiles. If the teaching is true, how could there be any openings left by the 1880's? I wonder why it is so difficult to consider Jesus speaking of the other sheep as the gentiles who would be preached to and join his flock. He also spoke of going to prepare a place, and refers to many abodes in his Father's house. Scripture clearly shows the Christians looked forward to heaven. You should check out "Approaching Jehovah's Witnesses in Love" by Wilbur Lingle. He has many good questions on this subject to pose to a JW.
Connie
