Robert King aka e-watchman

by RolRod 37 Replies latest jw friends

FragrantAddendum

"would he like fries with that?"😜
sloppyjoe2

At the end of the day, he ended up like everyone else, disfellowshipped. The organization he defended against the likes of people like AlanF, threw him out. He became an apostate to them, whether he knows it or not. He used to predict how close we were to the end before 9/11. He really thought that was going to be it when it happened. Now here we are 23 years later, he is saying the same things as back then.
Duran

This thread is an interesting find for me based on a recent experience. I have that experience to share...
One more thing before I share the what/why RK banned me on 6/22.
I wanted to show a brief run up of how I ended up writing the post that he edited and deleted most of the context of. On 6/17 I asked one short simple question that instead of answering it he said:
I am not obligated to explain anything to you.
That is a strange reply coming from someone who boast that there is not any challenge that he is not able to refute using the word of his God. There at that point it is clear that he is evading to answer my question about one particular Scripture (2 Thess 1:7), because he knows if he did and he was truthful about when the timing of that Scripture occurs, it would unravel the erroneous teachings/beliefs he puts forth by using that Scripture and others to apply to another point in time to match with his erroneous teachings/beliefs. (So very WTS/GB of him.)
Here is the buildup to my posting:
Someone said this which is in line with RK teaching:
I thought Jesus presence is the 42 months when he comes alongside the holy ones?
I replied:
Many do think and say that, but they do so without using Scriptures to show it.
If you do think that then will you show me the Scriptures that would show Jesus coming at the beginning/start of the 42 months?
And then show me the Scriptures that show Jesus coming at Armageddon (after the 42 months)?
(I hope that you will supply two separate set of Scriptures that you feel pertain to both if that is what you think. Then with that we can look at the context of them and see if they fit two different time periods.)
Also, tell me if Jesus comes at the start of the 42 months, is that considered his second coming?
RK replied:
I do not know of anyone who says that except me. And I have used plenty of Scriptures to explain it
Me:
I know that you use Scriptures when speaking and writing what you do about that. And I appreciate that about you because it gives one Scriptures to read and study.
Likewise, the WTS uses Scriptures in all they say in their articles/paragraphs, yet you and many others can read what they write/say and read the cited Scriptures and say, 'No, that ain't it'.
So, it is not that I am claiming that you do not use Scriptures, what I am saying is that when asked about what you wrote/say if I have questions about something and then ask you about it, asking about Scriptures, etc... you will not do for example what I asked Guest to do. You or others just say go read your book or here is a link to an article to read. That is said as if the answer to what I am asking is found there. But my questions stem from already have reading all that first.
It's the same with JWs, you can read all from the WTS and then have questions and ask a JW and then the best answer they can give is go to JW dot org or read such and such article. How will that answer your question if your question is based on what you already read there. It is always just going to keep saying the same thing there. What they are really saying in doing that is just accept what is said there and believe it without question. They are unable to answer/defend what is said if they have to reason upon the Scriptures and what is written.
I think it would be awesome of you if you would at least share your thinking on what tribulation do you think they are receiving relief from here, because in doing so it shows the point in time that Jesus comes from heaven with his angels, etc. Then with that we can look at other Scriptures pertaining to his coming, etc.
So, what do you think, are these verses pertaining to the start of the 42 months or after them:
7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.
RK:
You pretend like you know everything and make matter-of-fact statements. I am not obligated to explain anything to you.
Duran

To understand this it helps to know that RK believes the apostasy that is said to come from the MOL has to do with the WTS. Also, just like the WTS, he believes that there is such thing as a ‘presence’ of Jesus that takes place before Jesus comes at Armageddon. And keep in mind that RK thinks that all references of Jesus’ presence/revelation/manifestation/coming in power and glory all are the same coming of Jesus’, that he places at his #2 timeframe of what he says is Jesus’ presence/parousia that takes place only with his chosen and occurs at the start of the 42 months and all during that time and THEN Jesus although supposedly already here in his so-called ‘presence’ with his chosen, he will apparently come again at the end of the 42 months for Armageddon.

WTS thinks:
1.1914 presence/coming of Jesus started (second coming)
2. At some point any day now the GT will start (no time given on how long it will last)
3. GT will end
4. Jesus comes at Armageddon (Third coming)

RK thinks:
1. Says apostasy with the MOL/WTS will soon come
2. Then presence/revelation/coming of Jesus starts (second coming)
3.42 months of MOTB of 8th king/KOTN apostasy starts
4. Then Jesus comes at Armageddon (Third coming) at end of the 42 months

Frank’s view based on what context of Scriptures show:
1. 8th king/KOTN/MOL all the same entity/42 months during this time with the MOTB apostasy that has to come first prior to Jesus coming.
2. End of 42 months, presence/revelation/coming of Jesus occurs. (second coming- Armageddon)

Example of Scriptures that Robert King aka erroneous-watchman, twists and ignores context in order to apply at his #2:

[2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.]

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

[26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]

[the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ = the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory = the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]

[when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones = he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together = our being gathered together to him]

So those 3 for him represent the same coming that he calls the parousia/presence that happens at the beginning of the 42 months and takes place ONLY with his chosen.

With the above noted, the following is a portion that I quoted from RK articleposted on 6/22 and responded to and asked about:
Duran

In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.” Elsewhere, namely in his letter to the Romans, the apostle referred to the revealing of the sons of God. Needless to say, the revealing of the sons of God will come about as a result of the revelation of Jesus to them.
John, who was on the mountain when Christ was transfigured before them, wrote in his first epistle: “Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” – 1 John 3 verse 2
Considering the context of Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians concerning the parousia, Paul issued a warning regarding the operation of Satan as the source of authoritative pronouncements and apostolic-like letters declaring that the presence has begun and the Lord’s day is here. Then, the apostle prophesied and gave us a vital bit of information regarding a crucial development that must take place first before Christ appears. Again, what is that? Read it: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction.

I then took this part:

In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.”

I then said that you are talking about Jesus’ presence/parousia and citing a Scripture that shows that that is when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones. I then went on to say look what happens when you look at the full context and not just the part that you isolated out of it:

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

This coming of Jesus’, RK places at his #2, at the start of the 42 months. This is critical for him to place it there because he is hell bent to support his notion that Jesus has a so-called presence with his chosen ones prior to his coming at Armageddon.

This is why he uses verse 10 alone, to try to make the time ‘Jesus comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones’ a totally separate earlier even before his coming at Armageddon.

Why he also says:

Elsewhere, namely in his letter to the Romans, the apostle referred to the revealing of the sons of God. Needless to say, the revealing of the sons of God will come about as a result of the revelation of Jesus to them.

But the context of ‘the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels’, ‘when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones’ shows that relief is being given to those that suffered tribulation and also everlasting destruction is being given at that time to those that did not obey the good news. This shows that the timing of this coming has to be after the 42-month tribulation of the 8th king when Jesus comes at Armageddon.

I then took this part:

Then, the apostle prophesied and gave us a vital bit of information regarding a crucial development that must take place first before Christ appears. Again, what is that? Read it: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction.

Then I cited full context of Scripture he used:

[2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.]

I agreed that YES according to what is written, is states that before any presence/revelation/manifestation/coming of Jesus to gather his chosen/be glorified in connection with his holy ones could happen, that the said MOL and apostasy from him must come first. I reiterated that the said presence/coming/revelation of Jesus from heaven with his angels to be glorified with/gather his holy ones, shows to take place after the 42-months of the 8th king at Jesus’ coming at Armageddon, which cannot be disputed based on the context of being giving relief from the tribulation and bring everlasting destruction on the disobedient ones at that said coming of his.

I then said that being that that coming is after the 42 months then what about the fact that I understand and agree that the said MOL/apostasy has to come first before Jesus will come to gather his chosen/be glorified in connection with them.

I cited Scriptures that have to do with the KOTN. Now keep in mind that RK agrees here on this point that the KOTN and 8th king are the same entity during this time of the 42-months. I reminded that with the 8th king during this time is the time of the MOTB, which he knows and agrees. So now I go on to show that in regard to the KOTN is says:

[ 31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. 33 And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.]

There it states that there is an apostasy the KOTN leads. So since we agree that the 8th king and KOTN are the same entity and this is the time of the 42 months with the MOTB, then the apostasy that is said to be lead by the KOTN must have to do with the MOTB.

So by all shown so far it means that the apostasy the must come first before Jesus will come, takes place during the 42 months and then Jesus comes. Therefore the MOL has nothing to do with the WTS but instead is also the same entity as the 8th king/KOTN.

All I asked of him to answer is if he thinks that the WTS is wrong with what they teach and he calls them out on it, then if he thinks that what he teachs is true then can he answer the following:

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

What tribulation are they receiving relief from?

Based on the context, does the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels take place at the start of the 42months of the 8th king or after at Armageddon?

If the apostasy is clearly said to be lead by the KOTN and that is during the 42 months having to do with the MOTB, and if you don’t think the MOL is the same as the KOTN/8th king, but instead is your beloved WTS, then what is the said apostasy that is to come from them (WTS) that you think comes first, before Jesus comes and the 42 months start when another apostasy is said to come led by the KOTN?

I went into greater detail there how the MOTB is the apostasy having to do with either worshipping Jehovah and refusing the 8th king during the 42 months or supporting the 8th king and there by rejecting Jehovah which is the apostasy. But here I am not going to go into that detail because I know many here don’t even believe in the Bible. I just wanted to show what RK wouldn’t answer and why he banned me and deleted what I wrote/asked.

Because he knows that if he ever admits that the context shows that the ‘revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels’ takes place after the 42 months, then he can’t keep claiming his erroneous notion that there is a said coming/presence/revelation of Jesus prior to his coming at Armageddon, something that the WTS teach to this day and RK has his own version of, so just like WTS/GB, he lies to retain that notion. He also won’t admit that the apostasy that has to come first before Jesus will come is the said one that comes from the KOTN/8th king during the 42 months. The reason he won’t admit to that and insist that there two different apostasy’s that follow each other back to back, is because he is hell bent on claiming the MOL is within the WTS so that the apostasy connected with the MOL must take place somehow with the WTS first, then is followed by a second apostasy with the MOTB.

Additional of Frank’s view that RK deleted:

8th king = KOTN = MOL
putting into holy placeexalts = sit in the temple exalts
captivity = captivity
judgment apostasy = judgment apostasy
comes to his end when Jesus comes = comes to his end when Jesus comes
FragrantAddendum

robert tries to overcomplicate things just like wt does
(if it's "complicated" then he can be a "savior" and 'splane stuff)
jesus said it simply and many times he illustrated it
jesus comes back, dissolves religion, then replaces government
the generation that sees religion plagued will also see the kingdom come
because the tribulation is only 3 1/2 years (aka 42 months aka 1260 days)
the plagues are figurative
blood = showing the institution as bloodguilty
hail = truth exposing lies
locusts eat up = govts eating up financial assets of religious institutions
darkness = religious/political leaders "light" shown to be "dark"
fire/sulphur = dissolving an institution and it's never coming back
etc
wt is part of babylon the great
robert king's corporation is part of babylon the great
all those religious hypocrites lording it over others in an unscriptural way are part of babylon the great
anyone making a profit off religion by selling books or movies or t-shirts or whatever is part of babylon the great
jesus said "you are all brothers" and "one is your leader, the christ"
Duran

So, what do you say @ a watcher, are you gonna reply to RK here (post #4) and ask why he banned Frank and then deleted/edited his post? Are you going to inform him and everyone else on his site that the info he deleted is over here, asking him to address it?
I am being facetious; I know that you are not going to, but I say this because one would think that if you think that his site is a place where so-called lost sheep should be directed, then you should at least care and make sure that the place/person you are directing them to is not also a lying deceitful person like the GB are.
I may have been the one who referred you. I've been hanging out there for years looking for lost sheep and directing them here.
It's possible. I lurk on ex-jw websites and mention e-watchman occasionally.
The moderator(s) of that website doesn't like you. I was ridiculed for mentioning you there. They recently banned me for saying something negative about the website. No great loss.
Diogenesister

Boy I miss Outlaw...
("Side show Bob😂😂😂)

Robert King aka e-watchman

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