Why did Jesus have to suffer?? Something I never thought about.

by ttdtt 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ttdtt

  Something dawned on me last night. Jesus was suposed to be a corresponding sacrifice for Adam right?

  A perfect life for a perfect life. Thats the exchange right?

  The WT explanation of why Jesus had to actually SUFFER horrifically is this.

  He thus proved that Adam too could have obeyed God if he had chosen to do so. By enduring under trial, Jesus left us a model to follow.

  Of course the scriptures in the paragraph around those sentences have not answer the question that the sub heading poses.

  WHY JESUS SUFFERED AND DIED

  Adam - who he is swapping out his perfect life for - DID NOT SUFFER by a torturous execution.

  Also hius test dealt with the temptation of eating an Fruit. I know this supposedly symbolized his desire to be independent (by the way a feeling that he could only have if god created him with it), but didn't Jesus pass that test when satan offered him the world?

  So why did this Jesus - the perfect corresponding sacrifice (sacrifice as we have been taught is like for like - equals) - have to undergo something ADAM never did, nor was asked to do?

  I guess it's like the old Tootsie Pop commercials.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NniKYiy2I
  
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  Malachi

  Good point. Interestingly he stands in stark contrast to the horrific example his presumed father set. Numerous examples throughout the bible indicate that he was an ill-tempered, genocidal maniac responsible for the slaughter of many thousands of people including innocent children simply because they had no knowledge of what his standards were. Consider the Canaanites. They were wiped out based solely on the decision by 'God' that the Israelites should have the land. No opportunity for redemption was offered them, the only ones who survived were Rahab the harlot and the Gibeonites who apparently were smarter than God and tricked his army into letting them live. This pattern continues in the future when God supposedly will annihilate over 7 billion people because they wouldn't listen to the hoarde of crazy, pedophilic, mentally unstable cult members who feel they are working out their salvation by peddling their religious beliefs and living double lives and who feel that they will enter the 'promised land'. I feel bad for the deluded people who got sucked into the cult, I was in for 50 years.
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  punkofnice

  I think it adds credence to the explanation that it's all just a man made fable. If god wanted to forgive, he would, just like that.....no silly tests of loyalty.....no slaughter....no 1000s of years of misery for humankind. You can see why I no longer believe in god or jesus as described in the bible. That's just my point of view and each erson must make their own decision.
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  prologos

  if Jesus was the second Adam (and the bible is right) he should have been allowed to outlive "our oldest ancestor" by 70 years, and live to past the "one day" thousand years, to prove that he really deserved that title "last Adam".also:

  Adam's story has him prompted to eat the fruit by a naked, perfect female that had prepared a meal. ( if you balk at the dish, you might be deprived of other goodies for the next 970 years!). not a choice that Jesus ever was subjected to as far as we know, or?
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  WTWizard

  Unless the whole thing is a fraud, there is no reason anyone should have to suffer or be tested. Original sin: Normal human desire and potential. Jesus: A fictitious character invented to "pay" the punishment for being human. This introduces the element of indebtedness from the start, for the whole human race, with no way out. And, since Jesus is nothing more than the archetype of the perfect slave, anyone following that thing will become the perfect slave.

  Also, joke-hova creates the problems in the first place. Though Jesus didn't suffer because that rag never existed, everyone else must. Then joke-hova provides promise of relief from this suffering, at the cost of giving up your freedom. Ultimately, joke-hova is going to have global communism enforced by global microchipping, and there will be no hope for a meaningful life at all. This is what joke-hova's "paradise" means. This is the new order that joke-hova promised.
  
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  sloppyjoe2

  I haven't read the above comments but I would also like to point out that Jesus and Adam weren't the same. Adam was "perfect" without the knowledge of good and bad. Jesus on the other hand was perfect with the knowledge of good and bad. Genesis 3:22 says that with the knowledge of good and bad that Adam and Eve would now be like God and live forever, and he wouldn't allow that to happen. Jesus would be like God with that knowledge already. So you had a perfect human without the knowledge of good and bad who sinned, vs a perfect human with the knowledge of good and bad who did it successfully.
  
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  ttdtt

  Its all just a pretty bad story.
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  Crazyguy

  Jehovah the biggest asshole ever likes the smell of his sons sacrifice Ephesians 5:2
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  Island Man

  I think the explanation for why Jesus had to suffer is that Jesus served in a role similar to Job in that he proved it is possible for a human to remain faithful to God even under great trial and suffering. So they say that Jesus' faithful endurance of suffering proved false Satan's charge that humans only serve God in favorable circumstance and abandon him when things get bad. But there's another side to the subject of human integrity that neither Job or Jesus answered and that has never be tested and it's this:

  Do humans serve God because they truly love him, or because of the promise of a future reward for the faithful and destruction for the unfaithful?

  This is the more important test of integrity that the bible does not address. As long as there is a reward for obedience and punishment for disobedience, it cannot be demonstrated that human's obedience to God is borne of pure love untainted by selfish motives.
  
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  Floodguy

  The whole story of a god/man coming to earth, healing people, raising the dead (apparently even a guy named Lazarus) dying a violent death though innocent, and followers gaining salvation through symbolic cannibalism of his flesh and blood, is a story that pre dates Jesus by over 1000 years.

  Paul introduced that whole concept. No wonder the Jews didn't buy in to the whole thing, and the Gentiles jumped onto the bandwagon. It was already familiar to them, and the Jews knew it was pagan from the get go. Our problem is interpreting the Hebrew Scriptures in light of the christian Greek, instead of the other way round. When you do, the whole case for Jesus being the messiah evaporates. Paul, Matthew, john, all took the Hebrew verses they quoted in support of Jesus out of context, just a like the WTS does.