KGB is outta here for the day the pain in my back is so damn bad the only way I can get comfortable is laying flat. I will try to be back tomarrow to reply to your post...Thank You...
This includes you logan, God Bless you....
The Scriptures
by KGB 39 Replies latest jw friends
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CruithneLaLuna
I suppose I should add my two cents' worth to this discussion - the very brief form thereof, anyway. One does not "be" a JW for 30 years without giving a lot of thought to the Bible and the evidences offered for its inspiration by those who believe in it. And one does not turn to and adopt non-Christian forms of religious expression without thought, either.
In passing, one thing I'd like to say about "thought" is this: "Logic" that appeals to the intellect can be carefully crafted to justify any belief system, and to those who say that you can't trust anything that doesn't come from reason and logic and is based on well-"known" and well-"understood" facts, I will say that that is exactly the sort of thing that my experience as a JW taught me not to trust - at least, not without a lot more than the kind of pre-digested, pre-filtered "research" that the Society offers, and not without careful observation of the results of the application of what is offered as "truth."
Okay, so let's talk about the Bible's claim to be inspired of God. Specificaly, let's talk about the fruits of believing in and following the Bible. It's impossible to do that without simplifying and generalizing, and then some Christian can pop up and say, "but my personal relationship with God is different!" or "the denomination I belong to is different!" or "the non-demoninational church I belong to (at least) is different!" I don't buy any of that. What is genuine Christianity? Is it practiced by anyone today? I don't know. Let's ask Jesus. But we can look at the fruitage that has been produced by religions, in general, that have claimed to folow the Bible.
Basically, the history of Christianity is a long, bloody list of atrocities. It is very fair and accurate to say that Christianity and Christians have been responsibe for the slaughter of more humans (not to mention the other life forms with whom we share the earth) than any other religion. If you are interested in viewing a portion of this "long, bloody list," try this link: http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/biblegod.html.
While we can all think of exemplary individuals who embraced some form of Christianity, and seemed to be motivated by their faith and (most of all) love, and with whose lives we are hard-pressed to find fault (may I suggest, for example, Mother Theresa?) - and I know many Christians who are very "nice people," whom I feel I can personally trust, and with whom my interactions have been almost uniformly pleasant - it seems that on the whole whatever benefits may be derived from the religion are overshadowed by a specter of what I can only call evil - anti-human, anti-earth, and anti- anything that can be reasonaby called an expression of the Divine. (What I mean by "the Divine" is, any god that I would consider worthy of my worship.)
Our worldwide society and civilization today are primarily the fruit of Christianity. (At least this is certainly true is we live in the English-speaking world, which is English-speaking because it was dominated for a while by the British Empire, or has been iontimatey connected politically and/or economically with the USA). While we acknowledge that we all benefitted from this civilization in many ways (do I need to list them?) it behhoves us to also look at the price that has been, is being, and will be exacted for these benefits. Part of the price fits in with the list of atrocities - neary all of the land and resources that have fueled our "boom" have been stolen from others, and whether or not it was easy to steal them, if those others couldn't be enslaved they were slaughtered - at least to the point that they would no longer pose a genuine or credible threat to the Christians' ownership of the land and resources of interest. Another part of the price is the ongoing destruction of the environment and our fair planet, which will kill us all eventually if we don't either stop it, or go out and find other environments and planets to destroy.
Whereas Satan's policy is said to be "rule or ruin," history proves that the Christian mentality is "rule, rape, and ruin." By "rape" I mean, sucking out of whatever people or resources are available whatever is necessary to fuel "our" all-consuming lust for money and what it can buy, and for power (which is usualy bought with money, by the way), and to show our contempt for everything that we did not invent or create, while as a group we turn a completely blind eye to all other considerations. Of course, there are always individuals who serve as a kind of corporate conscience, who decry what has been done, is being done, and is proposed, but their actual power to actually effect change and forestall or prevent the ongoing rape has been, in most cases, virtually nonexistent. And in the process of raping, we also ruin. For example, we call paving over nature and erecting Wal-Marts and freeways, etc. etc. "improving" the land. Take away the parking lots, the Wal-Marts, and the freeways, and although the land will eventually recover, I don't think it would be visibly "improved."
I can go on about these topics, to the length of one or more books, but this is not the place to do so, and my purpose is to provide a quick summary. If you're interested, you can go find the books, Websites, and other sources that abundantly demonstrate the overall accuracy of what I've written here.
In closing, I want to say that if Jesus Christ is going to rule the earth and solve all of our problems, as promised by the JWs and by the Bible as they understand it, I'll happily submit to and work for the aims and goals of the Kingdom. On the other hand, I have not found one "Christian" religious organization whose history or impact on individuals and society has exemplified the kind of healing that is needed for humankind and the earth. Therefore, I have turned to non-Christian spirituality and philosophy for my "spiritual food," knowledge and practices that I perceive as helping me to become a better person, one who is better able to contribute toward the creation of the kind of world in which I want to live, and the kind of society in which I could enthusiastically participate in a wide variety of roles.
Cruithne/Enhtiurc
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pinoy
Catholics are notorious for trying to dictate(so are the jdubs)......they are getting more adept in their old age though,Catholics that is.
I believe that it is an understatement.
Maybe a more appropriate statement is:
Catholics are notorious for trying to annihilate.
- True christians were fed to the lions in Roman arena
- Thousands of people were tortured, maimed, brutally killed during the inquisition
- Catholic clergymen blessed Hitler's annihilation of the jews
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little witch
KGB-
Hope you are feeling better today.
I agree with Logan, the approximate dates in your bible, are not part of the text. They are however reliable dates.
I believe the oldest book in the bible is Job, from the research I have done in the past. Job is actually a long poem, for those who didnt know.
I do not agree with Logan, that you are a ''numbscull'' however.
Name calling is childish, and you didnt deserve to be ragged on for simply trying to discuss a very interesting topic. Dont get taken in Kgb. Just dont respond to it.
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heathen
Ironically it is the Watchtower that is the only religion to make the claim that they have restored christianity to it's original form to that of the 1st century variety . I cannot remember any other religion making that claim . I do think the bible is a very interesting book and obviously was tampered with thoughtout the interpretation process. I am not a christian however nor do I practice any religion because I think there is way too much deception involved when people organize religion . I don't think the bible is the problem in the world I think it's what people do in the name of religion . I do remember a scripture that states a huge apostasy would happen before the end of the world so I thik it is right on that one . I can't say what the oldest book in the world is but I do know that the dead sea scrolls show that the bible was being copied somewhere around 200 bc. It seems it's always been a very important book to many people throughout history. I would doubt that Job is the oldest book in the bible I would think that the mosaic law was the first written scripture . It is believed that most of the mosaic writings such as genesis or job in the old testament were actually verbally passed on for hundreds or thousands of years until moses wrote them down .
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Deputy Dog
There are many, just look at the mormons and the claims of Joseph Smith!
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heathen
Deputy Dog--- I can't say I've read much of the mormon religion . I know many religions claim to offer the road to salvation but as far as restoring christianity to it's original form ? The Wt teaches that they were called out of babylon the great , the world empire of false religion to restore pure worship much like the ancient jews did when they were released from babylonian captivity and restored pure worship in jerusalem.
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Deputy Dog
heathen
In the EXPLANATORY INTRODUCTION of The Doctrine And Covenants (mormon scripture) 4th paragraph it states: "...He was told in this vision that the true Church of Jesus Christ that had been established in New Testament times, and which had administered the fulness of the gospel, was no longer on the earth. ...it was shown to him that God had a special work for him to do on the earth, and that through him the Church of Jesus Christ would be restored to the earth.
Also, what do you think the Re formation was all about?
Deputy Dog
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heathen
Maybe in the past there were alot of churches that would proclaim they alone had proper understanding of Gods will . Today I think it's more of just believe in christ and you are saved . I have heard that from many religionists . I guess I stand corrected on the issue due to my lack of knowledge on the belief structure of organizations . If the mormons still believe they are the only road to salvation that is .