It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (page 884)

Chinapomo

How can you compare R Franz with that disgusting slob. The two names shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

144thousand_and_one

Jw facts say’s around 65k leave jw each year
coc was written 40 years ago
Give or take would you say 2 million?
if so 10k is half of 1 percent

These are the "facts" you are relying on in support of your conjecture that COC "saved" 10s of thousands of people from JW? As I said, there is absolutely no evidence to support your conjecture. You might want to avoid refilling that shot glass.

Simon

If Raymond franz had used prostitutes and was a narcissist would it make crisis of conscience any less valuable? It would be a shame they weren’t an upstanding human that we could respect but C OF C would still be accurate and useful

No, it wouldn't, as it would totally discredit the honesty and authenticity of the author and for JWs exiting and making life-changing and family impacting decisions, that matters a lot.

But comparing Lloyd Evens with Raymond Franz is such a stretch, it's laughable to even do it. It's a rather lame attempt to excuse his behavior.

Anyway, I've had enough of your Lloyd-apologism, so you can piss off now. This site is for people to share genuine opinions and have honest discussions, and I think you're either trolling or involved with him in some way. No normal person can have followed the story and think it's all OK and acceptable.

Listener

The idea that Ray Franz could in any way be compared to Evans is ludicrous and shameful to even suggest.

As for comparisons with Anthony Morris III, I think there are a number. Funny thing is that he helped to wake JWs up also, just not as an activist.

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

“But… the videos! Those are valuable! Lloyd wakes up sooo many!”

I knew this would happen the moment Kim stepped forward. Lloyd has “helped”, but with a non-negotiable condition: He’s getting paid, and it had better be at his expected levels. Lloyd has always shied away from actually helping people who watched a video and wanted to talk to him - either by email, social media or by phone. He claims he’s busy working one week out of the month and if you’re lucky he’d farm it out to someone to reach out to you. Even then you’d be getting a sermon about how great Lloyd is and would not it be wonderful if he’d have you on for an interview to discuss your crisis? He’s even snapped at people who asked him for a link to one of his own videos, telling them his time is valuable and they need to do their homework. Imagine a counsellor at a suicide hotline with the same attitude.

Based on January’s begging tweets and his leaked Patrons videos, we can see where his heart really is. “Get me to 500 patrons and I’ll stay, but I really deserve more. 620 if you want me to keep Tibor.”

You can make the weak argument that Joel Osteen has helped people come closer to Jesus and has saved marriages.. But even these greedy evangelists are generally held to a code of ethics. Running off to Thailand like he did broke several circles of trust. Not only has he lied to his wife for years, but he spoke directly into the camera addressing the community and deliberately misled them about his “mental health break”. He even lied about being in COVID lockdown, thus the reason for cancelling his UK meetup.

You can’t take anything useful from a profiteering liar. It’s always going to be how he can extract something from you, be it an interview for content, or joining as a patron. He’ll always be this way.

KIMSILVIO

Daniel Walker

Not that it’s particularly relevant, but I would like to say that Covert Fades name is not Daniel Walker 👍

Simon

The idea that Ray Franz could in any way be compared to Evans is ludicrous and shameful to even suggest

They do have one thing in common ... they both published "Crisis of Conscience". Of course Lloyds was a stolen version, not the original.

Thisismein1972

if Raymond franz had used prostitutes and was a narcissist would it make crisis of conscience any less valuable? It would be a shame they weren’t an upstanding human that we could respect but C OF C would still be accurate and useful

This definitely is the lowest of the lowest. Lloyd used a copyrighted book from a man that actually had the stark reality he was lying to others. Using Raymond Franz to try and make an argument is vile considering Lloyd's disgusting behavior towards the holder of Raymond Franz estate.

You truly are completely brainwashed by Lloyd, aren't you.

KatKat

I'm not sure what Borg Off's point is, if I am honest. His calculations of how many people exited the JW because of COC or Lloyd's videos makes no sense. How can he know what they read or watched or thought during their way out? Lloyd Evans does not have a free card to behave how he does because some of his videos might have helped in the thought process of someone wanting to leave the JWs.

Lloyd is in real life in contact with vulnerable people, like many on this site already explained. He tries to manipulate them to give him money so he can keep manipulate his family and have sex with more vulnerable women. If say a person who produced something similar like CoC would have behaved like Lloyd does, wouldn't you want to warn the people around him to spend their money elsewhere? If you need to buy the book buy it but don't start shoving free money towards him. And the comparison with RF doesn't fit anyway because Lloyd sees himself, or at least he puts up the image, that he is an advocate for CSA and SA. I don't know if RF ever did that. So there will be and were many CSA survivors who support Lloyd with money out of their own pocket and Lloyd goes off to Thailand to abuse probably quite young vulnerable women there with their money. Isn't that outrages to everyone?

Has anybody watched the IICSA videos? Many religious organisation, as we all know and Lloyd knows very well, cover up CSA because they don't want the religion or organisation look bad. If Lloyd is fighting against that why not hold Lloyd to his own standard? Nothing Lloyd Evans did needs to be covered up for the greater good. Absolutely nothing. If Lloyd has less influence because he is criticised then so be it. Others have already stepped up and more will step up. It will be good to have more variety and different views anyway.

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Using Raymond Franz to try and make an argument is vile considering Lloyd's disgusting behavior towards the holder of Raymond Franz estate.

Absolutely. He “apologised” and then starts blaming her at the same time. Pays the $50 under protest, criticises her for sending him a cease and desist via parcel service and accuses her of being in cahoots with Mike and Kim. Then in what can only be described as a hate campaign, calls her an “unworthy custodian” of Franz’s legacy and likened her to “withholding antibiotics in the midst of a pandemic”.

This coming from the same party who stole her copyright and attempted to sell it!

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

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