How did all these civilizations survive the flood?

by losthobbit 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Saename

  Well, there obviously was no global flood. All evidence is completely against such notion.

  However, there are theories that some flood may have occurred long, long time ago. This would explain why we have stories about floods coming from different cultures that didn't have contact with each other prior to globalization.

  Nonetheless, keep in mind that if said flood ever happened (not the Biblical flood obviously...), then it would have been of a lesser magnitude than those tales would have us believe. Much lesser magnitude, in fact.
• 

  stuckinarut2

  Yep, when just an ounce of logical thinking is applied to the flood topic, it all falls apart....
  
• 

  Saename

  James Mixon - Gen. 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 is a big problem for believers.

  I would have to disagree. I am no Christian apologist as I am an atheist, and I in no way believe in an inerrant Bible. So keep that in mind as you will be reading this post.

  Having that said, I don't think Gen. 6.4 and Num 13.33 are a contradiction. I mean, Genesis does say that the Nephilim died after the flood, and in Numbers 13 we do have a reference to those Nephilim as if they were still alive. However, keep in mind who mentions those Nephilim. To me, it seems that it was a purposeful lie on the part of the speakers (the spies who went off to the land with Caleb) to scare the Israelites so that they would not attempt to wage war against the Canaanites (and other nations.)

  I mean, of course, I don't believe this even happened. I don't believe any of it is historical as we have evidence that the Israelites settled in the land of Canaan rather peacefully—without as many conflicts as the Old Testament "testifies." However, what I mean is that I don't think the author of Numbers made a contradiction. I believe the author of Numbers, when he was making up that story, mentioned the Nephilim purposefully, knowing that they were already dead in this fantasy world. I think that whoever wrote Numbers—and, no, it was not Moses—just wanted to add some drama into the story. So, as a result, we have spies who are deliberately lying to Moses and his people.

  But let me highlight one thing again. I am an atheist, and I don't believe this account is even an actual historical fact. I'm just analysing it as I would a novel or any other creative piece of writing. It seems to me to be too obvious to actually consider it a contradiction.
• 

  Crazyguy

  The all climbed into the three great pyramids at Giza. Must have since they were also built before the flood and obviously survived.
• 

  stuckinarut2

  Good reasoning saename!
• 

  Saename

  stuckinarut2 - Good reasoning saename!

  Thanks. I may be wrong, of course, but it's not like we are ever going to find out what the author of Numbers meant or thought at the time of writing the book, so... why not just make a guess, eh?
• 

  Barrold Bonds

  *Archaeological find proves Bible right!* ---See the Bible is inspired!

  *Archaeological find proves Bible wrong* --Well, man made dating methods are imperfect.
• 

  James Mixon

  Saename, that sounds good to me. That's the fun part about some of the accounts in the Bible,

  nothing is clear cut.
• 

  wizzstick

  So, as a result, we have spies who are deliberately lying to Moses and his people.

  And that is also what the WT says about them:

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003223
  
• 

  shepherdless

  However, there are theories that some flood may have occurred long, long time ago. This would explain why we have stories about floods coming from different cultures that didn't have contact with each other prior to globalization.

  
  

  A while ago, I tried to find details on all these various flood stories from different cultures. I came to the conclusion that the assertion that there are multiple flood myth stories is, itself, a myth. It seems some people have gone to great extent to dig up and list every ancient and medieval reference to a flood or deluge and try to use it as evidence.

  
  

  Worse, most accounts only appear after a culture has had contact with Christianity and the biblical flood myth. To pick a ridiculous example, Lebor Gabála Érenn, (compiled in the middle ages in Christian Ireland, and repeats biblical accounts) is cited by some as evidence of another culture with an ancient flood myth.

  
  

  Most accounts that resemble the Noah's ark story are Sumerian or Mesopotamian in origin. All of these accounts seem to stem from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The story of Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh has so many similarities to the Noah's ark story, it has to be from the same source, or one is copied from the other. In both stories an extremely large rectangular boat is built (admittedly different dimensions) and is loaded with animals and Utnapishtim/Noah's family. The flood comes and the boat eventually comes to rest on a mountain. Both Utnapishtim and Noah release birds to find land in the process.

  
  

  I think the story in the Epic of Gilgamesh is the source for the Noah's Ark story (not vica versa) because:

  • The Epic of Gigamesh is much older than any written account of Noah's flood.
  • The Epic of Gigamesh was a widely repeated story in the region and there is around 1000 years difference in age between the earliest and the last known written accounts.
  • Early Israelites would have heard the stories of the Epic of Gilgamesh from one or more neighboring peoples.
  • Isrealites captured in Babylon would have heard the stories of the Epic of Gilgamesh from their captors.
  • The flood part of the Epic of Gilgamesh is part of a wider set of stories that make much more sense (as a work of fiction).
  • The Epic of Gilgamesh doesn't purport to be in any way historical.

  I should add that am no professional researcher or historian, and I would be interested in any other views.