Elder Mentioning an "Apostate Problem"

by Simon Templar 57 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Fencing

  It would be perilous for JW organization to advance a figurative view of the 144,000. What happens to their view of two classes and the enormous focus on paradise earth? What about the mountainous criticism of the churches of Christendom heralding heaven as the hope? JW's exclusive and literal take on the faithful and discreet slave is based on the view that the heavenly class is different from the great crowd.

  Making the 144k figurative doesn't mean they'd suddenly have to believe everyone is going to heaven. They would keep their two-class system, and just put heavy emphasis on the 144,000 evidently meaning the number of Christians with a heavenly hope would be a very small subset in contrast with the "great crowd".

  The concept of paradise earth is one of the most appealing aspects of the Witnesses to the majority of those who sign up. Thus, you'd still have the vast majority holding to that hope. The percentage of partakers would definitely spike, no question. But I think it would stabilize rather quickly. Probably no more than 5%, quite likely less than that.
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  juandefiero

  Making the 144k figurative doesn't mean they'd suddenly have to believe everyone is going to heaven. They would keep their two-class system, and just put heavy emphasis on the 144,000evidently meaning the number of Christians with a heavenly hope would be a very small subset in contrast with the "great crowd".
  The concept of paradise earth is one of the most appealing aspects of the Witnesses to the majority of those who sign up. Thus, you'd still have the vast majority holding to that hope. The percentage of partakers would definitely spike, no question. But I think it would stabilize rather quickly. Probably no more than 5%, quite likely less than that.

  Stop giving them ideas.
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  juandefiero

  They have been implying mental issues for those partaking "mistakenly" since at least 2003.

  For instance, some might ask themselves: ‘Do I use medications that affect my emotions? Am I inclined to have deep emotions that I could misjudge?’ (par 20)

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003124?q=partake+emblems&p=par#h=19
  
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  TheListener

  Seriously, I understand the 'not giving them ideas' thing but this isn't rocket science; they've known for decades that they could divorce the partaking them emblems thing from the heavenly hope thing. I mean, we're talking about the organization that came up with, or resurrected from some other source, the overlapping generation teaching. If they can teach that, then they can teach anything.
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  MarkofCane

  That’s not unusual at all we have three sisters in my hall that partake, these women all have somewhat strong personalities. I think it’s a way to usurp the elder’s power in a quiet and dismissive way without making a sound. They know they belong to a patriarchal run organization and can never command real power but they send a message that they will rule over them in their Utopian paradise. It’s funny really. I can’t take them seriously when there cognitive ability is displayed during a question and answer session during the meetings yet there delusional sense they will rule like Kings over mankind is to be accepted.

  I to think there will need to be a vetting process to weed out the nut jobs like they did in ancient Israel. “The priest could use the urim and thummin to determine God’s will in a particular situation. We are not exactly sure what the urim and thummin were, but the priest carried in his breastplate perhaps two sticks or stones, one white and the other black, that would give a yes or no answer to a specific question. That is one form of divination that God allowed in the Old Testament. We read in Exodus 28:30.

  Now that would be cool, I’d go to watch that. It’s odd that if I zoom out in my area where there’s around 18 congregations ( English and Spanish) I can’t think of one male that partakes of the emblems during the memorial, but I can count around 8 woman. Good for them.
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  OneFingerSalute

  Exactly nailed. There have always been 2 classes!!! 2 always!!!!

  The Heavenly Class the little flock.

  The Earthly Class the great crowd.

  At the risk of sounding argumentative there are actually three classes.

  The heavenly "little flock" class. Those whom Jesus allegedly made a direct covenant with to rule in heaven with him, which could be a relatively small but limited number. (Figurative 144,000?)
  

  The heavenly "great crowd". Those who are now claiming to be anointed and going to heaven as part of a final gathering. (A large but unspecified number)

  The "Other Sheep" who profess to want to live forever on earth petting pandas, wearing suits and dresses, and never not smiling as they pick fruit in their dress up clothes.

  This was, if I remember correctly, somewhat of a teaching in the twenties, that there were two classes of heaven-bound partakers.
  

  All-in-all it is as a CO once said, "No matter how you slice baloney it is still baloney."
  
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  OneFingerSalute

  Just slightly off-topic, but what would the ELDubs do if, as a NON-JW, I were to partake of the grapejuice at their 'Memorial?'

  That happened where I am a few years ago. A guy went up and sat in the eldurr/ms servers row. When the wine got to him he tossed off the whole glass full and then started gagging and spewing the wine back into the glass and yelled, "This is the worst goddam booze I have ever tasted!" as he jumped up, still gagging, and headed for the doors.

  They had to stop serving long enough to empty, wash, and refill the glass. Too funny!
  
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  closed

  Hello Simon. About behavior of elders - it is possible. I experienced shunning ( and my wife) because as an elder I didn't agree with some decisions of service committee. I was asked to take part in a convention and had a item at elders school at that time. Envy moved them to spread lies in neighboring cong. No joke. There were two other elders in that cong who had similar adventures. We all left that particular cong
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  steve2

  Just slightly off-topic, but what would the ELDubs do if, as a NON-JW, I were to partake of the grapejuice at their 'Memorial?'

  You'd be tolerated but not added to the count of partakers, judging by the reaction to this scenario in my old congregation when "weak" or "inactive" friends partook - they just weren't included in the count.
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  Simon Templar

  Hello Closed. I am sorry to hear what happened to you. Several years ago the CO singled out our Son and wanted to "get him" as I was told. I still don't know why. The CO came after me too and we had our discussion. The CO did not prevail. The CO traveled to other Congos and told various ones there that our Son was a bad associate and to avoid him. Everyone did. Our Son was not charged with anything, no committee formed, etc. Just the CO working covertly. Our Son was effected greatly by the actions of the CO. He left the religion on his own shortly thereafter. He has been out for years.