Military Service Confusion

by Sea Breeze 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • blondie
    blondie

    Be wary when the WTS uses this phrase or the equivalent, "The Scriptures, though, do not tell us what Cornelius and others did after their conversion. No doubt" as the WTS will add to scriptures and justify it by adding "no doubt" somehow means they are not adding to a scripture. Interestingly, this quote was hard to find using the Watchtower Online Library (WOL). Are they trying to hide it, perhaps? (see WT 9/1/1986).

    "The Scriptures, though, do not tell us what Cornelius and others did after their conversion. No doubt" Good catch!

    A few more examples: "

    • The Bible does not say how long it took Noah to build the ark, but it seems that he spent several decades building it.

      • The Bible does not say, but even by the end of the first century, the number of believers must have been far fewer than 144,000.

        • The Bible does not say, but the way events unfolded suggests that consideration for young Samuel was an important factor.

          The Bible does not say, but we have good reason to believe

          Life begins at conception. Jehovah can resurrect individuals of whatever stage of life because “all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:27) But the Bible does not directly say whether he will resurrect unborn children who died in the womb.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    The link that Disolusioned JW put up is very good in respect of the original question as to the early Christian’s serving in the Roman army . It would appear that the early Christian writers spoke against it but over the next 200 years or so, of course some no doubt did.

    I am not going to say anymore on the attitude we should have today. People have intractable positions.

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    I am not going to say anymore on the attitude we should have today.

    Well I sure as hell will. Shame on anyone who hopes their screaming wife could get some help from a neighbor during an attack but advises others to be neutral when they are not personally affected.

    Shame, shame, shame.

    WT poison is hard to get out of people.


  • GodBeliever
    GodBeliever

    Hi SB
    I see you hate badly JW's
    You will never understand God's power and his purpose with regards to human race. He sent Jesus to save the human race and to gather all peaceful people from around the earth. Human race always tried to take charge and never waited fo God's help. They never put total trust in Him. That's why so much violence and war throughout human history.

    "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust. For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence. He will cover thee with his pinions, And under his wings shalt thou take refuge: His truth is a shield and a buckler. Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night, Nor for the arrow that flieth by day; For the pestilence that walketh in darkness, Nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, And ten thousand at thy right hand; But it shall not come nigh thee. For thou, O Jehovah, art my refuge! Thou hast made the Most High thy habitation; There shall no evil befall thee, Neither shall any plague come nigh thy tent. For he will give his angels charge over thee, To keep thee in all thy ways. Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble: I will deliver him, and honor him. With long life will I satisfy him, And show him my salvation."

    Psalms 91:1‭-‬7‭, ‬9‭-‬11‭, ‬14‭-‬16

    "This poor man cried, and Jehovah heard him, And saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of Jehovah encampeth round about them that fear him, And delivereth them. Oh taste and see that Jehovah is good: Blessed is the man that taketh refuge in him. Oh fear Jehovah, ye his saints; For there is no want to them that fear him."

    Psalms 34:6‭-‬9


    "Behold, Jehovah’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, so that he will not hear."
    Isaiah 59:1‭-‬2 ASV

    "Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help, and rely on horses, and trust in chariots because they are many, and in horsemen because they are very strong, but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek Jehovah! Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words, but will arise against the house of the evil-doers, and against the help of them that work iniquity. Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit: and when Jehovah shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall stumble, and he that is helped shall fall, and they all shall be consumed together."
    Isaiah 31:1‭-‬3

    "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith Jehovah, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you hope in your latter end. And ye shall call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
    Jeremiah 29:11‭-‬13

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    Hi SB

    I see you hate badly JW's

    No, just hate WT lies. Here's what you said:


    1. You will never understand God's power and his purpose with regards to human race.

    2. He sent Jesus to save the human race and to gather all peaceful people from around the earth.

    3. Human race always tried to take charge and never waited for God's help. They never put total trust in Him. That's why so much violence and war throughout human history.

    @God Believer,

    Christians could not disagree with you more as you repeat WT heresy. It doesn't mean anyone hates you, that accusation is just a manifestation of the victim complex the WT installed in its members.

    Allow me just to point out a few heresies in your thinking:

    1. Jesus is not Michael the archangel. Jesus said if you've seen him, you've seen the Father. So, right off the bat, you got a big problem. You got the wrong Jesus, so you CANNOT know the Father.

    2. Jesus didn't come to earth to gather peaceful people as you say. Jesus said that he came to do just the opposite of what you state: "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” - Luke 5: 32

    3. "They never put total trust in Him. That's why so much violence and war throughout human history."

    No. People sin not because of what they did or did not do. They sin because it is their nature to do so. The answer is not to jump higher, run faster and try harder. That was all tried in the OT and ended in failure. Christ was the end of the Law, thank God!

    Jesus came to die in our place (not Adam's): God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 Cor. 5: 21

    Christians trade places with Jesus. My sin for his righteousness - that's the offer; there is no other.

    Once a believer accepts the sufficiency of this payment, they are born again with a new spirit which cannot sin. This is the supernatural and biblical answer to the problem of evil (sin).

    WT theology is demonic and wholly anti-christ. It bears zero resemblance to Christianity. The two could not be further apart. It is a return to bondage of sin and death.

    JW's refuse to be free. They love their damnable heresies rather than the sweet person of Jesus our scape goat.

  • GodBeliever
    GodBeliever

    SB,


    I understand you believe what you believe, but that is not necessarily true.
    I also base my belief on the bible as I understand it. If I am wrong God will decide. I don't tend to tell people they are wrong. I only tell them what I believe.

    First of all I didn't say righteous people I said peaceful people which is a different thing. Peaceful people are those who love peace and doesn't mean they don't have sinned.
    “Blessed are the gentle, for they will inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
    Matthew 5:5‭-‬9

    Yes, people sin because of their nature but that it's a consequence of Adam's rebellion and sin. And yes I believe Jesus's sacrifice .
    "Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
    Romans 4:4‭-‬6

    After being saved people can't sin anymore.
    “And their sins and their lawless deeds I will no longer remember.” Now where there is forgiveness of these things, an offering for sin is no longer required. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
    Hebrews 10:17‭-‬18‭, ‬26‭-‬27

    I can't agree with you on trinity and that Michael is not Jesus.

    “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued."
    Daniel 12:1 NASB2020

    "and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life."Revelation 21:27

    “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
    "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."
    Matthew 24:3‭, ‬21‭-‬22

    Same tribulation when Michael comes, as well as Jesus's second coming .

    Origin: The name Michael is of Hebrew origin and means “who is like God?” or “gift from God.

    "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they. But regarding the Son He says, “Your throne, God, is forever and ever, And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom. “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions.”Hebrews 1:3‭-‬4‭, ‬8‭-‬9

    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."John 3:16
    "For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Romans 6:23


    Jesus explains here very clearly that oneness with God it's unity of purpose and action.

    “I am not asking on behalf of these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I also have given to them, so that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and You loved them, just as You loved Me.
    John 17:20‭-‬23 NASB2020

    "If you see my you se my father " -Jesus meant that he was representing the Father:
    "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him."

    “I can do nothing on My own. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of Him who sent Me.John 5:30

    John 5:43 because Jesus is the mediator between man and God.

    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    John 1:18 and no man can see God an live.

    Moreover, Jesus was dead for three days and then was resurrected by his Father, whereas the bible says that Jehovah is immortal.

    We can carry on like this forever. I don't se how you can prove your point without omitting all this evidence.

    "But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will repay each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation."
    Romans 2:5‭-‬8 NASB2020

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    For those interested Historical Military Chaplaincy check out

    https://thechaplainkit.com/

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    God Believer:

    First of all I didn't say righteous people I said peaceful people which is a different thing.

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

    Are you a righteous person GB? Please explain how you could come to the conclusion that you could ever have any inheritance from God as a JW.

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: - Romans 3: 10

    You quoted John 5:43 - "because Jesus is the mediator between man and God".

    STOP LYING and tell the truth for once.

    The WT says that Jesus is not the Mediator between God and the average JW. JW's intentionally lie about this until they get you to join.

    Then, later if you say that you have a problem with this, they label you an apostate and weaponize your family against you!

    If they were being up front about things, they would come right out in one of the 100 or so questions that are asked to baptismal candidates and ask them:

    Do you recognize that upon getting baptized as one of JW's you agree that Jesus is not your Mediator between you and God? But they don't do that do they? No, of course not because many JW's are professional liars and con artists.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwH_USEzpU&t=116s&ab_channel=BibleReady



  • GodBeliever
    GodBeliever

    SB

    You keep making accusations!

    Yes I hope I will be found righteous otherwise:

    "you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
    1 Corinthians 6:9‭, ‬11. However,

    "A person may think their own ways are right, but the Lord weighs the heart."
    Proverbs 21:2

    "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."Matthew 6:3

    "The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are attentive to their cry."
    Psalm 34:15

    I don't know what the WT currently teachings are, but Jesus is the mediator between man and God.

    "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."John 14:6

    “Therefore, everyone who confesses Me before people, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before people, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."Matthew 10:32‭-‬33

    And I am not with WT as they are now. My relationship with Jehovah and Jesus is not conditioned by a human organisation or another person. I only associate with the people that are genuine truth seekers.

    "Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel."Hebrews 12:1‭-‬2‭, ‬22‭-‬24

    And I am not lying I always try to tell the truth of the bible as God guides me.






  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    GB says:

    Yes I hope I will be found righteous otherwise:

    By what circumstance or device would you ever hope to be found righteous as a JW?

    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: - Romans 3: 10

    I am not lying I always try to tell the truth of the bible as God guides me.

    Then tell me the TRUTH about why you think God should allow you into his family. As a JW, on what basis could you possibly hope to be found righteous with no sin debt?

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