Are you a self reliant person?

by William Penwell 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Now here is where I stick my foot in my mouth, although I have done that enough in my life. I would like to think of myself as a free thinker and look at everything objectively. The point I would like to bring up here and discuss with others is, even though we claim or most of us claim to be ex Jdubs, we still have not gotten away from the codependent mind of a dub. I know my self it has being a struggle in my journey of self awareness to get away from that mind set. Early in my healing process I came across a quote I like that I have written down in my diary by Wayne Dyer. The highlights are added;

    "The leaders of the church have misconstrued the teachings of the great religious leaders and attempted to teach conformity by using fear of retribution as a weapon. Thus a man behaves morally not because he believes it to be appropriate for him, but because God wants him to behave that way. If in doubt, consult the commandments rather than yourself and what you believe. Behave because someone has told you to and because you will be punished if you don’t, not because you know it to be the right behavior for you. Organized religion appeals to your approval seeking needs. It may produce the same behavior that you would have chosen, but you haven’t chosen it freely."

    "Using yourself as a guide and not needing the approval of an outside force is most religious experience you can have. It is a veritable religion of itself in which an individual determines his own behavior based upon his own conscience and the laws of his culture that work for him, rather than because someone has dictated how he should behave. A careful look at Jesus Christ will reveal an extremely self-actualized person, an individual who preached self-reliance and was not afraid to incur disapproval. Yet many of his followers have twisted his teachings into a catechism of fear and self hate."

    Thus I find most even though most have made a break from the Jdubs controlling environment, they really have not got away from looking to an outside source for guidance. I like the quote above " Using yourself as a guide and not needing the approval of an outside force is most religious experience you can have." That Jesus was an extremely self-actualizing person that preaches self-reliance. So what I see, even though we have made that break from a controlling cult, is some seem to gravitate to other mind controlling religions, theologies or ideologies. Why they can't make a decision or feel self worth without consulting a minister, counselor or fortune teller. That is the reason why I left the dubs. My ex couldn’t make any decisions without consulting the elders. Makes me wonder why some even left the Jdubs if they only go to another mind controlling groups or peoples. Is it freedom of thought that we wanted when we left the borg? Will

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    I've always been an emotionally and spiritually self-reliant person, even as a child, so I think I had it easier leaving the Borg because I didn't need others' approval to know that what I was doing was the right thing.

    There is a danger when some JWs leave the Borg that they will get sucked into another cult or some sort of scheme due to their need for belonging to a group for affirmation. They have needs that can be easily exploited.

    With me, I have no desire to join an organised anything, and I am pretty self-reliant in everything so perhaps I'm better off than others in that sense?

  • Aztec
    Aztec
    Using yourself as a guide and not needing the approval of an outside force is most religious experience you can have.
    I don't know why everything is being quoted, but, good for you Will! You are growing! That is a great quote! I'm my own spiritual guide! :-) I love ya!
    ~Aztec stupid quoting thing ...GRRRRR
  • Shutterbug
    Shutterbug

    I read one of Wayne Dyers' books when I left the dubs in the early 80's. I also had my son read it and he talked with his grandmother about it and almost had the poor old soul in an early grave. She just couldn't conceive of not being able to control people via guilt trips. Thanks for posting this. Bug

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Thanks you all for your response. After getting away from the dubs mind control I have been offered to join different ideological group but have declined. I don't mind looking at alternative views but I don't need to be accepted into some religion or social group to have self worth. That is the mistake many make and then they are no better off then they were with the dubs. It’s all about group dynamics and conforming to their way of thinking which is not for me.

    Will

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX

    There is a lot of truth to this... me, personally - I do not feel the need to belong to any organized 'religion'... but knew a person who had left the JWs, and then went to another religious-type organization - because they felt that the words spoken at the meetings were needed to reassure them that they were okay.

    If folks need that - more power to them. Not me. I would rather spend my time at the local coffee shop reading and studying. Computer-related stuff.

    Regards.

    Jim TX

  • rekless
    rekless

    You gave an example of Jesus being self reliant...well actually he was very much a free loader. He didn't have a house , he traveled around and stayed with who ever let him. He was much like a CO or a DO pass out the word we will be there such and such days. Need food and shelter. Jesus taught leave your family, earthly riches are bad, follow me. I have not a place to lie my head down, we will stay at Mary's house and have food and drink. We will tell the friends about our traveling around a good story for a good meal.but if This is not self reliance. It is putting people out and taking advantage of their good hearts for a song and a prayer. The truly self-reliant people is the street people. They dig through garbage , recycle cans, beg borrow and steal. They don't care what you think about them. Don't belong to any organized anything. I'm not self-reliant, because I am at this moment waiting on a corporation to call me for an interview: where-up-on I will be paid some money then I can distribute my funds to Nevada Power, AT&T telephone, and Nevada Gas. I still don't beleive in organized groups.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    rekless

    You make a good point. This day and age we have to be dependant on others for our day to day existence, unless we are living in the mountains away from civilization. Unless you make everything yourself, even then we would have to be dependant on others. My point is that we should not need others approval to better our self esteem. That is why I never could fit into the dubs because they want you to be dependant on them for everything. I just know from my own experiance as a dub how some would run to the elders for advise on everything. They couldn't even blow there nose without an elders approval.

    Myself, I have got my job on my own with no help from anyone else and have been working for the same company for 20+ years. Even though while I was a dub it would interfere with the weekly meetings, I had to keep working to support my family. I recall once an old elder telling me to quiet my job because I couldn't make all the meetings!!! Yeah sure and who would support me? Although that is probably where they would like me to be, so I would have to crawl back to them for help..

    Will

  • rekless
    rekless

    Shakespear, I understand what you mean. I was one of those idiots that followed the borg to the tee. 35 years of toeing the line, keeping things simple, being an elder, blah blah, blah. What I have now is a daughter that I trained so well that I am shunned. At 58 I'm paying for being an idiot. You were smart to do as you did. In closing Quoting Henry Peter Brougham, "Education makes a people easy to lead, but difficult to drive; easy to govern, but impossible to enslave." Once reading this statement one can understand the reasoning of the society not wanting it's members gaining an education. The entire membership that unquestionably follows the society of thirteen are some of the most scholarly uneducated people on the face of the earth; while thinking they are the most educated people. This is why followers are called sheep and thinkers are called out. Sheep are the dumbest of all animals, because they will follow a "Judis goat" to their death.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    rekless

    I understand why the society would like to keep the R&F membership in ignorance but its now biting them in the butt as we have seen with the Pedophile issue, Instead of the elders seeking outside help with these cases they relied on their untrained, uneducated experience and it has opened them up personally for lawsuits. Also they are finding that there is not enough educated younger ones that can replace the elders that are dying off and take the lead in the congregations. Although this is getting into us of the subject and into a new topic....

    Will

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