An interesting reasoning for the existence of God (from JW public talk)

by anointed1 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  anointed1

  I was on an official tour last week to another part of my country. On my way to the hotel, I noticed sign-board of JW Kingdom Hall. I thought I would attend Sunday meeting as I knew no one would recognize me.

  Seeing “a new-comer” in the audience, Public Speaker adapted his material making it especially appealing to me. What I liked the most was the unconventional way he tried to reason on the existence of God. He said: ‘Universe is like a diary book with countless blank sheets. Yet only on one page [earth] is written something—something like a beautiful poem [life].’ What does this show? Owner decided to write on one page so that when others see blank sheets they should know that it takes a writer to do the writing. Whether he will do so with rest of the pages or not depends on the owner.

  After hearing this illustration, I tried in the whole WT library to see its original version. But no where it is found which means it belonged to Public Speaker himself. Unbelievable! There are some thinking persons in an organization where thinking is banned.
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  JeffT

  He said: ‘Universe is like a diary book with countless blank sheets. Yet only on one page [earth] is written something—something like a beautiful poem [life].’ What does this show? Owner decided to write on one page so that when others see blank sheets they should know that it takes a writer to do the writing. Whether he will do so with rest of the pages or not depends on the owner.

  BS. How does this guy know what's written on all the other "pages"? How many planets as he been to? How did he get there? What proof does he have for this assertion? Just because he can't see something doesn't mean its not there.

  
  
  
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  OUTLAW

  An interesting reasoning for the existence of God (from JW public talk)

  There are some thinking persons in an organization where thinking is banned.

  Thinking?..

  Unless he has Proof of Gods Existence..

  It`s one more WBT$ Fairy Tale..
  

  
  
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  anointed1

  JeffT

  Don’t just write him off because of his background [a lotus can grow in a dirty lake]. You don't have to seek proof because you are also a proof! Besides, there are buyers of him even from scientific community: This vast universe reportedly originated from a space much smaller than a speck of dust. On the other hand, Consciousness is the very window through which we perceive reality. So, we cannot push it aside as something unimportant. I remember reading Roger Penrose forcefully reasoning that a scientific world view that does not profoundly come to terms with the problem of conscious minds cannot claim the “pretension of completeness.” Consciousness stares at us when we deal with the underpinning of our world that is the quantum world.
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  never a jw

  that a scientific world view that does not profoundly come to terms with the problem of conscious minds cannot claim the “pretension of completeness.

  The scientific world has never made that claim, nor will it ever. That claim is contrary to the essence and methods of science. You and a bunch of theistic apologist make that claim up.
  

  Science may have not learned yet everything about consciousness, but it's miles ahead of any sacred text ever written to explain everything else. Wishful thinking is what makes you embrace bad analogies
  
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  schnell

  Are we on about consciousness or life on Earth?

  When creationists talk about how special human consciousness is, it always seems to me like they are selling other animals short, even though many other species also show personality and awareness beyond mere stimuli.

  I hate to sound like a downer, but we are a species of such narcissists. It's kind of hilarious. It's not enough that we take the name "homo sapiens" ("wise man"). It's not enough that we have evidence of our natural evolution in Africa, as well as evidence of admixture from other hominids. It's not even enough that we have evidence of other hominids around the world, too.

  No, we also have to believe in an unmarried invisible father who created us with a golem spell, a sort of virgin birth from the red earth itself. (Why not a mother? Well, there are reasons for that, and it's because patriarchy took over though godesses came before gods.)

  What if... there is no such thing as a Spirit, and God is (at best) a metaphor? What if we are afraid of not being special?
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  WhatshallIcallmyself

  "Don’t just write him off because of his background" - anointed1

  The speaker's background has got nothing to do with a thinking person dismissing such a ludicrous analogy. The speaker's analogy is written off because it is nonsense. He is making an assumption that the Earth is unique and then asserting his assumption is a fact and going from there. It's a basic logical error yet here you are, anointed1, touting this guy's nonsense as something profound.

  And your response to your op being criticised? Any of us on here who have had children will be vary aware of how consciousness develops as the child gains experience and memories. That should be a subtle clue as to the evolutionary development of consciousness....
  
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  John_Mann

  That should be a subtle clue as to the evolutionary development of consciousness....

  Can you trace our sense of own mortality in evolutionary terms?

  Do you know any animal that wonders about its own natural death?

  And what about our sense of justice? There's no justice in the jungle so why and how did we developed something not found in nature?

  BTW the OP analogy sucks.
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  anointed1

  never a jw & schnell

  you said: “Science may have not learned yet everything about consciousness, but it's miles ahead of any sacred text ever written to explain everything else. Wishful thinking is what makes you embrace bad analogies.”

  It’s good to note that you agree that science is at the start of its journey/probe which means it can use many ways and means. After putting all the available means only one can be assertive about the conclusion. But is that the situation? Classical science sees neuronal firings and synaptic connections as basic bits, or information states in the brain. And billions of dollars are going to mapping all these connections in the hope to capture the essential feature of brain function - consciousness. This brain mapping may be missing the point entirely. What if they start mapping deeper levels of scale, into the quantum vibrations in microtubules and other biomolecules? Then there is another scenario: Our thoughts, our will, our consciousness and our feelings show properties that could be referred to as spiritual properties. And we all know that no direct interaction with the known fundamental forces of natural science, such as gravitation, electromagnetic forces, etc. can be detected in the spiritual. On the other hand, however, these spiritual properties correspond exactly to the characteristics that distinguish the extremely puzzling and wondrous phenomena in the quantum world. Situation again becomes not only more complicated, but also goes out of our reach. We know the particles of which things are made but the real nature of objects continues to evade us. The universe is composed of waves and it is a modification of its original substance that remains hidden in the waves and modification. The sense organs that catch the waves and modifications are themselves modification of the substance or of its waves. Each one of them can catch only a single modification. Hence NO SENSE ORGAN IS CAPABLE OF COMPREHENDING WHAT LIES BEHIND the waves or modifications.
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  cofty

  And what about our sense of justice? There's no justice in the jungle so why and how did we developed something not found in nature? - John Mann

  Yes there is.Do sone research on vampire bats for one of many examples. All social animals have social rules.