Those bastards are damn lucky my child survived. I agree with Simon I am responsible and would have held myself accountable along with the Bastard Kings in NY.
Are GB accountable for deaths for changing policy ?
by Chook 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Lee Elder
It is a very complex issue. However, the argument of misrepresentation is valid imo. It would be very costly, difficult litigation - particularly in the U.S.
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scratchme1010
...breaking up family's with old oral sex policy
Somebody died of oral sex? That had to be some...
In a more serious note, morally they are repugnant. They do have caused the death of people and can't care less about it. Legally, though, I think it's possible to prove them liable, though not a very easy task.
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truth_b_known
This is similar to the first time I became aware that the whole organization is a scam.
I was 19, maybe 20, and a ministerial servant at the time. I was working at a Circuit Assembly in the accounting department. I was working with an elder who was commenting on a part at the Assembly.
During the program it was mentioned that, if faced with compulsory military service, it was alright to accept an alternative assignment offered by the government. This elder commented on how, during the Vietnam War, he was offered an alternative of working in the US Post Office and did.
What I found out afterwards was that, back during the Vietnam War, brothers offered non-military alternative assignments had to turn them down or face being disfellowshipped. So, in short; hundreds of young brothers chose prison over non-military service as an alternative to being drafted into the military.
Add in the number of Witnesses who died because of turning down blood fractions and we see how much damage has been done.
Jehovah's Witnesses have one commandment - Thou Shall Do Whatever the Most Recent Issue of the Watchtower Tells You.
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Vidiot
Chook - "Are GB accountable for deaths for changing policy?"
* sigh *
Does a bear shit in the woods?
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Vidiot
scratchme1010 - "Somebody died of oral sex? That had to be some..."
Hey, if I had to choose how I checked out... :smirk:
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Vidiot
Reminds me of a joke I heard once...
George W. Bush dies and goes to Hell, and the Devil greets him personally to help him get "settled in", bringing W before three large doors.
He says, "okay George, you get the option of one of three eternal torments, each represented by what's behind each of these doors."
He opens the first door, revealing Hitler being repeatedly burned alive, over and over again.
W kinda shakes his head, and says, "I dunno. What's behind door #2?"
The Devil opens the second door, revealing Pol Pot repeatedly being flayed alive, over and over again.
W kinda shakes his head again, and says, "I dunno about that one either. What's behind door #3?"
The Devil opens the final door, revealing Bill Clinton sitting naked in the Oval Office with Monica Lewinski kneeling in front of him, repeatedly doing what cemented her place in history.
George W. Bush says, "Hmm, This doesn't seem so bad. I'll take this one."
The Devil smiles, and says, "Monica, you're free to go." :smirk:
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StarTrekAngel
I believe they are to a degree. Some other people are as well but I believe the lower you go into the layers of authority, the least responsible. At least from an ethical perspective. It is obvious that they have legally covered their butts pretty well.
You can not put full blame on the parents or the deceased him or herself when you are under this kind of influence and in regards to the consequences of non compliance. When you are convinced you are in the truth and you've are given two choices...
1- Give your child a blood transfusions, which is not guaranteed to save his life (or so you believe) and with the chances of getting all this horrible deceases
2- Insist on an alternative that may technically have less chances of success (but you believe otherwise) + you get to keep the family + you get your ticket to paradise.
Provided the above was true, the choice is clear. I still have a friend who believes getting a blood transfusion may give him the chronic conditions the other person may have and don't know it yet (like diabetes)
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Pete Zahut
The accountability I was referring to in my earlier comment wasn't about legal accountability, I was referring to accountability to the God they profess to be representing.
The Societies literature indicates that a JW could be held accountable/ blood guilty by Jehovah for the lives of the householders if he or she doesn't spread the "good news" to them at every possible opportunity.
If one can be held accountable to Jehovah for not spreading the good news, then it seems reasonable to conclude that one could be held accountable for spreading incorrect information that could bring harm to a potential follower or cause them to turn away from the message because they can see that the humans supposedly delivering Gods message are misrepresenting him or don't know what they're talking about.
I'm sure it could be proven in a court of law that based on what their leaders have insisted upon, JW's are intimidated into refusing blood for fear of displeasing God in a big picture way and fear of losing their friends and family if they don't comply.
We've seen in the past how when the rubber hits the road, the Leaders claim that each JW is free to choose their own actions and that no disciplinary action would be taken against them. Yet we all know the reality of it. If a JW takes a Blood Transfusion, there will be consequences. If an elder, pioneer, ministerial servant were to take a blood transfusion, they would no longer be able to continue serving in those capacities. At the very least a JW who accepts a blood transfusion would be viewed as a weakling, as having failed Jehovah and would be a big disappointment to everyone he knows and loves.
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Tech49
I tend to agree with Simon's comment early on. Ultimately, it is OUR personal decisions that we live with. However, the caveat to that is how our decisions are influenced.
We had a teenage boy in our area recently commit suicide. JW parents, they weren't super-strict, but no doubt his upbringing and the pressures of being a witness were a factor. Should we blame the GB? Maybe, to a small degree. But again ultimately, a larger degree of blame lies on the person making the decison to pull the trigger, including the parents, as they are intimately involved with their childs life, and maybe could have done things differently??.
I have seen several JW suicides over the years, and they all have similarities, including OTHER influences outside JW life.
Alot of it boils down to whom you trust. Do you trust 7 men in New York with your life? I dont. They dont know me and my family. They dont know real struggles, they dont know real family issues and how to cope in the real world. They are spoiled, pandered to, and are put on pedestals, whether they admit it or not. They grow fatter by the day, while spewing out "new light" just to keep up the facade of the "man behind the curtain". They could care less if I live or die. In my humble opinion, that is disgusting.
I firmly believe that we all need to take responsibility and take care of ourselves, and look at WT presented information (if that is where you are at in life) and "truth" very objectively. As has been said many times, "truth" does not change. WT does.
No sane person would EVER give themselves over mentally, without question, to an organization, or a group of men. Those who are NOT entirely sane.....just might.