Novelist With Questions

by Researcher With Questions 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Researcher With Questions
    Researcher With Questions

    Greetings All,

    I am a writer, who is at present working on a novel, and I am developing a character/characters who has/have been Jehovahs Witness(es), and I have some questions that I am hoping someone may be willing to answer.

    First, my general credentials. I am a working writer, with a number of professional poetry publications in journals and lit. mags, including The Country Dog Review, The Lake, Pirene's Fountain, and Harpur Palate. My first chapbook of poetry was published by Kattywompus Press in 2015. I worked for over a decade as a college composition instructor, up until Spring 2013, when I left teaching to work full time as a writer, and as a community volunteer. I have worked as a volunteer creative writing workshop facilitator at two local shelters/transitional homes for women and children, as well as, as a volunteer for our local adult literacy tutoring program. My current project is my first work of long fiction, and is a work in progress. For more detailed or specific credentials, you may message me.

    Next, a bit of information about the plot line in question: The bulk of the novel is set in 1986-1987. In 1975, a couple was disfellowshipped for allowing a blood transfusion for their daughter with leukemia. The child (unfortunately) passed anyway. After having been disfellowshipped, the couple moved to a different town with their two surviving small children, and did not continue in any formal way with the Jehovahs Witnesses (e.g. attending meetings). These characters are part of a larger "cast" and the plot line is running concurrent with and is intertwined with other plot lines (which have nothing to do with Jehovahs Witnesses, but do in some part deal with matters of faith, belief, and truth).

    Now, the questions:

    1. If someone is disfellowshipped, how common is it (if at all) for that person to NOT seek reinstatement, but to still adhere to most or all of the tenants/beliefs of the Jehovahs Witnesses? (Aside from attending meetings, going door to door, etc.). In other words, to continue to adhere to doctrine, without this sort of formal practice?

    2. If one half of the couple in question desires to be reinstated, but the other does not, what would happen? Would or could one half of the couple do so? What would be the likely impact on the relationship if that person were to be reinstated? Would/could they even be reinstated in the scenario above?

    3. if someone were disfellowshipped for this reason, (or any reason, for that matter) how long does this process take, and what form does it take? How does it come about, and how is it carried out?

    4. What are the problems with the scenario I have presented (the plot line I've described at the top of the post)? Based on the knowledge you have of the Jehovahs Witnesses, what are the "plot holes" in this idea?

    5. Is a more likely scenario for the couple in question to have walked away from the Jehovahs Witnesses, moved to a new town, but to have continued to adhere to the doctrine (or, for one of them to have continued to adhere to the doctrine)?

    My desire is to craft characters who are complex and true to life, and to be sensitive and accurate in my representations.

    Also, I have another (related) question. How might I find out the date(s) that particular Kingdom Halls opened/were incorporated? If anyone has this information, what Kingdom Halls existed in the Southeast Michigan/Northwest Ohio region in the 1950s (if any) and into/through the 1960s and 1970s?

    Thank you in advance for any and all input. Should anyone who provides information wish to be included in the Acknowledgements page of the book, please send me a message to this effect, along with the name you wish to be acknowledged by, and I will gladly include you. Should you absolutely NOT want to be acknowledged in this way, that's perfectly fine as well, but please let me know that as well, either in your response, or by message.

  • mommyfirstandalways
    mommyfirstandalways
    I sent u a private message answering some of ur questions. Good luck.
  • Magnum
    Magnum

    1. Judging from a lot of experience, I believe it is common. Many who are disfellowshipped still believe the religion is right, will defend it, etc. They refrain from seeking reinstatement not because they don't believe the religion is right, but because they can't make themselves stop doing certain things the religion forbids (smoking, having sex outside of marriage, etc.) or they just can't motivate themselves to get back into the time-consuming, energy-consuming, resource-consuming, life-consuming JW routine.

    2. Yes, one or both could be reinstated. During the reinstatement hearing, the one seeking reinstatement would probably be asked about his or her views on blood and whether he or she would take blood transfusions or allow such for the children. Their cases should be considered separately and independently of each other. What one does or says he or she believes should not affect the chances of the other's getting reinstated. The likely impact on the relationship? Depends on a number of factors. Could continue on as normal. Might get complicated, though, if one would still take/allow blood transfusions and the other was reinstated and decided against blood transfusions and an incident arose during which doctors recommended a blood transfusion for one of the children.

    Out of time. Will try to come back later and answer more.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    1. If someone is disfellowshipped, how common is it (if at all) for that person to NOT seek reinstatement, but to still adhere to most or all of the tenants/beliefs of the Jehovahs Witnesses? (Aside from attending meetings, going door to door, etc.). In other words, to continue to adhere to doctrine, without this sort of formal practice?

    I believe you meant to say tenets/beliefs. It's very common for inactive JWs to still believe that the "organization" is "The Truth".

    2. If one half of the couple in question desires to be reinstated, but the other does not, what would happen? Would or could one half of the couple do so? What would be the likely impact on the relationship if that person were to be reinstated? Would/could they even be reinstated in the scenario above?

    Anyone can be reinstated by him/herself. It does not matter who they were with when they got disfellowshipped. And yes, this would make a major and negative impact on any couple's relationship with each other especially if they have children.

    3. if someone were disfellowshipped for this reason, (or any reason, for that matter) how long does this process take, and what form does it take? How does it come about, and how is it carried out?

    Once the judicial committee is formed by three elders the disfellowshipping can take place in as little as an hour. There is the possibility of appeal but the appeal committee usually rubberstamps the first committee's decision.

    4. What are the problems with the scenario I have presented (the plot line I've described at the top of the post)? Based on the knowledge you have of the Jehovahs Witnesses, what are the "plot holes" in this idea?

    No holes I could find but it might be good to know just a little about the non-Witness characters in case you can improve the contrast between your characters.

    5. Is a more likely scenario for the couple in question to have walked away from the Jehovahs Witnesses, moved to a new town, but to have continued to adhere to the doctrine (or, for one of them to have continued to adhere to the doctrine)?

    Fading is common amongst the JWs. A few still believe in it even after they have walked away. If the couple in your book simply walked away it would not make the emotional impact that a disfellowshipping would.

    I recommend that you go through the threads and posts here, especially from the newbies, and you'll see a lot of grief and drama concerning married couples and their relationship with the Watchtower.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    1. This is pretty common. Those that fall into this category will typically attend the memorial which is sorta the JW version of passover/easter/communion that happens annually and usually coincides with the full moon prior to easter. Magnum summed this up pretty well.

    2. This could depend on a number of things. For one, if the husband is seeking reinstatement and the wife is not, that could potentially hold him back somewhat because of the misogynist views of the cult - he should have his wife "in subjection" to him. I can't speak for the experience of women in the cult, but that may have it's own unique challenges too if she were trying to return without her husband. Since being DFed for giving your kid blood isn't something that's likely to be an ongoing problem (i.e. if you were DFed for wife-swapping, one spouse's failure to return might cast suspicion that the DFing offense is continuing) so it probably wouldn't be insurmountable if only one person decided to return. This can also depend on the 3 elders that are handling the case - there are a wide range of personalities and some are more harsh than others.

    If one were reinstated without the other, I suspect it would put a fair amount of strain on the relationship, even if both still somewhat believe the doctrine. The one that returns would likely place their "spirituality" (i.e. involvement in cult activities) ahead of the needs of the family. Furthermore, they would likely try to drag the kids to cult meetings and in service (door to door recruiting) which would probably be a source of frustration as the kids will begin to be indoctrinated to have a poor view of the non-attending spouse. The children would likely begin telling the non-attending spouse that they're going to die at armageddon or perhaps using their non-attendance as a reason that they have no authority over them. The kids would probably be the largest source of conflict in most cases. Though the spouse that returns to the cult would likely (whether consciously or subconsciously) blame any issues in their relationship or in their lives in general on their spouse's non-attendance, and if the wife is the one that returns (which is more common) she would likely resent her husband for not being the "spiritual head" that she needs and would blame him for any difficulty she has in maintaining her cult activity. A woman in the cult also has very limited options for obtaining any social status among the members without a husband that's also in. Women can really only pioneer, which I suspect would be unlikely in the case of one spouse going back and the other not, so without the status of being an elder's wife, she would be at the bottom of the totem poll.

    3. In general 6 months would be really quick, 1-2 years is more typical. Not sure of the specifics around blood - it might depend on the elders handling the case. If they have young children they may be more compassionate and be more inclined to reinstate, but the blood doctrine is one that his held in very high regard so a violation there might draw out some vindictiveness. You could go either way with it and have it be believable. If the kid given the transfusion still died, I think that actually might make their reinstatement go a little more quickly since the couple may well believe their child's death to be a punishment by god and this would result in what is probably going to be a more genuine display of grief and remorse, which is one of the things the elders will look for.

    4. The plot was kinda lightly described but I don't see any significant holes.

    5. In the time period that you're depicting, I think it's very likely that they'd leave and still hold the beliefs. Without the internet it was very difficult to come by the information needed to destroy the doctrine, and took a great deal of time and mental investment to do so. So most that walked away probably were left with some degree of belief remaining, they were just making the choice to be happy now and not wait for paradise. Or, as magnum said, they just couldn't quit smoking or gambling or whatever else.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    I think this issue of being reinstated is more cut and dry. For instance in our case my wife and I decided before we even had a child that we would not refuse a life saving blood transfusion........ this was in 1963. Once that thread is pulled all of the doctrines unravel.

    One needs to note that even by 1975 surgical procedures depended greatly on Blood transfusions to keep a patient stable on the operating table. Many surgeries could not or would not proceed if the patient refused blood.

    Since 1975 was the year that the WTBTS predicted for the end of the world if your couple were believers they would be risking their everlasting life in the new world that was coming....... within months. This alone would have created an unbelievable pressure on them to conform to the JW beliefs on Blood.

    However having saved their child and with the failure, once again, of the prediction for the end of this world, I would find it doubtful that either parent would be inclined to still believe in the doctrines or trust the dogma of the Watchtower Society.

    That failure of prophecy, by itself caused a massive leaving. From 1975 to 1979 more then 500,000 left the ranks of the JW religion.

    Most of the people on this forum who try to be reinstated, do so to be able to speak to close family members who are compelled to shun them.

    Others are incapable of living their life without the structure and close social/family ties that one finds in a religion like this.

    Obviously some are true believers who have sinned and want to repent and go back.

    However according to the Pew survey 67% of born-ins stop identifying with the religion. Of all the religions surveyed the JW's have the worse retention rate.

    Since your 1975 date is within range of Jonestown which happened in November of 1978, for many of us who left before this tragedy took place, Jonestown revealed how ignorant, reckless, dangerous and deadly a high control religion or cult could be as the death rate was 913 men, women and children.

    It is very possible that the JW's, also a high control religion, have needlessly caused the deaths of that amount of people each and every year since the doctrine was instituted in 1945.

    The rational ignorance (making a rational decision to ignor anything that does not support the JW construct) of most JW's puts them at the mercy of the Watchtower Society.

  • Researcher With Questions
    Researcher With Questions

    First, thank you all so much for your responses. The information and insight you've offered is invaluable. Please, if you will, let me know, those of you who have responded, whether or not you wish to be included in the Acknowledgements page of the book. If I don't hear, I will err on the side of protecting privacy, and will avoid acknowledging, and in any case, I will not be mentioning this site in the acknowledgements (again, privacy). But if you want to be acknowledged, just let me know by PM.

    Yes, Village Idiot--that is supposed to read "tenets." Darned autocorrect/autofill. I should have caught it on the proofread though. And yes, I've read a number of the threads/posts you mention re: married couples and their struggles, and have found them quite helpful.

    Anyone else who'd like to weigh in, I'm all ears (eyes?).

  • Researcher With Questions
    Researcher With Questions

    Greetings Giordano (and anyone else who might have some insight here):

    I have a follow-up question, if I can bother you one more time. I have done a bit of research now into the matter of the 1975 prophecy, and it seems, based on what I've read so far, that JW folks during that time were both particularly discouraged from and reluctant to have children (and obviously, why wouldn't this be the case, if the End was believed to be imminent?) Yet, as I've structured my plot, my fictional couple would have had at least three children during those years (between 1966 and 1975--in 1969, 1972, and 1974).

    This seems as though it might be a problem when it comes to authenticity of my couple as JW folks, especially if quite devout. So, here's my question:

    If they did this, had these children, how might that have been regarded by their JW community? By the elders? As an indication that the couple didn't really believe the prophecy? As some sort of evidence that they were perhaps a little too--let's call it "affectionate with one another" (I'm trying to be delicate here)? As evidence that they are somehow irresponsible and not really completely dedicated to the important matter of getting ready for what was supposed to be coming in 1975?

    I've read a few threads/posts here on this site that address the matter of children and having them more broadly, but of course, 2016 is not the same as 1966-1975.

    Thanks again!

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Researcher With Questions:

    Yet, as I've structured my plot, my fictional couple would have had at least three children during those years (between 1966 and 1975--in 1969, 1972, and 1974).

    This seems as though it might be a problem when it comes to authenticity of my couple as JW folks, especially if quite devout.

    Don't worry about it too much. There were exceptions.

    I do remember, in the late 70s, that I held bad thoughts of a girl who was engaged to be married thinking that the end was near. Not everyone would think alike though.

    You might want to name the character child born in 1974 Armageddon. Just kidding.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    hi

    If they did this, had these children, how might that have been regarded by their JW community? By the elders? As an indication that the couple didn't really believe the prophecy?

    nope not at all.

    As some sort of evidence that they were perhaps a little too--let's call it "affectionate with one another" (I'm trying to be delicate here)?

    definitely not.

    As evidence that they are somehow irresponsible and not really completely dedicated to the important matter of getting ready for what was supposed to be coming in 1975?

    no definitely not.

    I don't know how else to put it other than that what I have said above. although Jehovahs witnesses are discouraged from having children because the end is nigh once a woman becomes pregnant the context changes and a witness is encouraged to love and welcome the child. As a community too Jehovahs witnesses are taught to value and love children. Letting a child die because of refusing blood is considered a loving act no matter how paradoxical that sounds. I think parents have quietly allowed their children to have blood transfusions. for those who have done so openly I think they probably would have been disfellowed then but I'm not sure.

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