I think nearly all who just walk away (DA or fade) are no longer "believers". But many who are DFd may still believe devoutly in the religion, but they just cannot "live by the rules".
Doc
The two paths of exJWs
by Simon 27 Replies latest jw experiences
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DesirousOfChange
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Vidiot
Juan Viejo2 - "...ex-JWs who have reembraced conservative Christianity..."
Never ceases to amaze me when that happens.
I'd have thought they'd had enough of that sort of thing when they were still in.
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Ucantnome
The converts though bought into the WTS religion most frequently because it was serving the niche market they were looking in
When my parents became JW I don't think they were looking for anything. My father was very involved in politics and he said only met with them when they had called on my mother so he could show them that they were wrong. He failed. Years later at an assembly he met another chap he knew who shared his political views.
In some ways I think it was good for them but it's difficult to know for sure.
I find theology more interesting since I left the JW, I was a good Christian I think but probably not a good JW. I couldn't not believe.
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shepherdless
Simon - There are those who believe and those who don't. I know that seems obvious but let's break it down a bit more. There are those who don't and never believed and some who are looking for a religion to match their beliefs.
I don't think this is unique to JWism. It seems to be in the DNA of many humans to seek out or imagine a god or gods. Virtually every society in the past invented gods of one sort or other, and that deity (or deities) significantly defined that society. Perhaps humans with the "god" gene had a genetic advantage because they were more easily aligned into large groups or tribes and had a survival advantage over those not so aligned.
To quote Voltaire in around 1770: "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
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Xanthippe
I think it explains what I sometimes find unfathomable as a born-in who left - why on earth does anyone ever join the WTS when there is lots of information about them. It's not that they are suckered or conned as many imagine, it's that they are actively looking for something that matches the WTS brand of religion.
Yes I struggle to understand anyone joining as an adult, especially now in our information rich society. When we left we got involved with a research group of sociologists and anthropologists at the London School of Economics called INFORM, Information focus on new religious movements. My husband was asked to give a talk at one of their seminars.
They believed that the problem is with raising kids with a basic religious belief like Anglicanism for example is that they are taught an unrealistic and idealistic view of human behaviour. Nobody tells them that actually people aren't kind all the time, they don't always love their neighbour and far from turn the other cheek it's human nature to hold grudges and be unforgiving.
So these kids are then rich pickings for cults that stand outside colleges and universities and tell them that there are true Christians who really care about their fellow man and the planet and they are welcome to come meet them. We know the rest, these possibly lonely, away from home, teenagers who have been raised with unrealistically high expectations af humanity are then love bombed by wonderful new 'friends'. They think here at last are the people I was taught to believe existed when I was small and went to Sunday school.
It made sense to me. I could see how people get sucked into cults even when they are not particularly religious or looking for anything because a) they've been given unrealistic expectations of people from childhood and b) cultists pretend to be those perfect people until they are too emotionally involved to get out.
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JeffT
Something about this thread nagged at me all day, and I finally figured it out. Not all of us go through all the stages of our lives at the same speed. Some may leave the Witnesses and immediately free themselves of all religion. Others may take longer, perhaps exploring other churches or religions before leaving it all behind. Some may never get there.
Fifteen years ago, I was still exploring other religions, trying to find one that fit me. For many years I attended an independent church and liked it. It was certainly more free and open than JW's. But things changed and I grew tired of it. Now I don't attend any church and don't feel a need to. I have my own spiritual beliefs, but feel no need to tell anybody else about them.
At the end of the day I don't like putting people in boxes. We're all individuals with all sorts of things going on to make us unique.
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stuckinarut2
Nice thread, and great responses!
Some who have been raised to ride the "one and only correct bike", and who have been disillusioned or hurt by it, will resent both that bike and ALL similar ones...
They may never look at bikes the same again...which is sad, yet perfectly understandable...
They may blaze off into the sunset in a large 4WD instead....
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Bonsai
I cannot understand why people choose the belief path when they leave the JW org. I mean, the bible or any belief system in any religion out there offers no new evidence, no new light, no breakthrough communique with a higher being. None of them do! None of them have! It's just the same old recycled, regurgitated, retarding superstition built on an abstract foundation: You are flawed, you must pay for your flaws, god must forgive you for your imperfection and you need fleshly men to help you to do it. Ugh.
When was the last time the bible was updated with new scrolls? When was the last time religion offered an incredible service to humanity that a non religious organization couldn't do? When was the last time you directly, verifiably received a message from god?
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TheWonderofYou
Biking (faith) is wonderful vehicel for sport, recreation, exercise and transport. As has been stated, a quick decition is mostly wrong. If we want to bike (faith) we should try different models and producers and place ourselves on the seat and cruise around in the shop or yard. Some bikes are quite expensive and you can choose an unique individual setting. In any case testing the bike (testing faith) before you buy it is recommendable. If you only tried one at the first best shop and would always use that one, how can you imagine or improve your driving style or do you want to adapt your lifestyle to your beloved one-and-only bike instead of trying out different forms of biking? (smirking)
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One path
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Sadly enough for JW the bike (faith) however that is widely accepted as tool for recreation and family activies has been misused for their means by monopolisating as tool for their endtime-race. They go so far to say: only one bike (one faith) for the endtime and only one path up to the mountain with practically no free choice to select orientations, framesettings and tastes.
They dont see that this is a blind alley, no they say they have the bike for the "narrow path". No different life style purposes, goals or tastes for sporty fellows but simple the narrow path. The explorative sporty fellow tries different bikes that are made for mountainbikerallies and jumping races in town and country to fully utilise a bike's significance and exhaust the bike's sense.
In contrast the "JW bike" (faith) called the "narrow one" gives the impression of a not dangerous classical conservative bike (faith), a boring urban, city or maximal longdistance bike but in reality the bike (faith) is used for an exploiting and dangerous "hell race".
JW say their bike (faith) is a tool for cruising on the paths to the tops of the mountain of God, its a race to Zion, isnt it, they say. The only right path would be therefore "the narrow one" which is prepared by the route control by Bro Franzs followers. This route has to be taken now and no else one, the devoted latter day bikers are taking up the competition, the race to the mountain of zion ....this happens in our days everywhere.
They wont tread the route by feet or donkeys..."We shall not think that God made mountain bikes (organisations's faith) simple for individudal sports activities (individual thought)" said the president and added "the correct usage of a Zions mountain bike (Org=arch) which we call "the narrow one", counts and is our key for entering the kingdom fluently without problems and scaling up the diffcult and slithery terrain."
Then he mentions some testimonials of backseatdrivers. " Some even pimped up their bike (faith) to make big jumps over hills or houses to be faster in the paradise and thought they acted clever and smart by doings so, but this variation was for them a danger. Note: they thought in forward , jumped with the bike, and were kicked out lately, because they jumped somewhere else.
Others thought an electric bike (convenient faith) would be an advantage (slowing down preaching activities, only sitting and chilling around on the saddle, thinking that the saddle itself does the efforts in field service and bears the sitter to the top). Remember those examples in your preperations...
But even for those who used the correct mountain bike (faith) correctly he had a saying "Some got week bikers though riding "the narrow one" they became week bikers - who were not fully corresponding to the "easy understandable Organisationalist instructions" and so they slowed their speed and got in danger too. Why? Because they were kicked out into the stones and thistles by there fellow companions who were cruising faster and passed them left and right brutally during the race, so it got the name "hell race".
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Two or more paths
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For those who were kicked out justifiably of the race and off the path by better corresponding organisationalists in spite of everything what had been told them (hold on to the path, use the bike correct, take the narrow road, concentrate yourself, correct bike, competitors) the president had some words of comfort though."We know your are now in a desperate situation with two or more paths, but it is well deserved you know. Dont disturb our race to the top and come back on your saddle! You well know only with effort you will succed and that you wont reach the mountain of zion any longer without our saddle.
Thrown into the thistles and thorns most JW are thinking about the bikes (faithes) more intensively. Some are really dissapointed of the speedy race to the end, but they are somehow addicted or accustomed to the race per se and and then they try other bikes (faiths) some even other fundamentalist, but they are on their own way of a progress. The president says "They take part in slope races of the fallen ones" though. They dont listen to him any longer. They are studying the bike and try to understand for the first time what a bike (faith) is made of and for and looking for possibilities how a bike (faith) could serve them better. They are later accustomed hobby bikers that slowed there speed use the bike from time to time and threw away the old monopolized bike and then enjoy their new bike (faith) as medium for recreation, family activity or technical/scientific studies.
They began to understand that what matters is the attitude how you bike, fullhearted, merciful, reliable and not the a special bike (faith) monopol.
They understand the bike better so and are not afraid trying out other ones any longer. As most Ex dont like the speed anymore, the hast, the skelter and a single goal of the organisationalists but use the bike (faith) for upbuiling exercise, silent sport and recration, without constant fundamentalist propaganda, there is plenty of paths standing open for them.
But they are cautious. Although they had got caught by the president earlier and were trained to follow narrow instructions of submission they now avoid other forms of authorities, propaganda and advertisment which are not likeable at all for christians and others though they are very expensive sometimes. Also they avoid often the rush and hasting for idols, money, success, amusement, well-being because this would be other not good races. They dont follow other bike (faith) monopolits or bikers club organisationalists because they see the danger in taking part in any dangerious form of race.
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Wild_Thing
I think there is a certain niche of people that are attracted to what the WTS has to offer. I am talking about converts, not born-ins. I have noticed that many of the converts are poor, may be in abusive relationships, or have other things in their lives that seem out of control.
The WTS provides 2 things: hope and control. The new convert instantly has hope that their shitty life will get better, and the WTS provided regiment and control that salves the feeling of their life's circumstances being out of control. And to boot, they get an instant support system to go along with it.
Even when the convert starts to doubt or no longer believes, it is hard to let go of all of those other "supports" put in place by the WTS.