by gumby 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
LittleToe,
I'm afraid I do not understand the reason for your belligerence; I was merely answering your question, and stating a fact.
Spanner:
And your connection to the JW's is???
What the hell are you talking about?
Besides - are you saying that all Christians (and I could probably add a pile of other religions or spiritual paths, here) are mentally ill?
See above.
Proof, please...
Ditto.
Spanner
belligerence
ROFL you find his comments belligerant? And I thought I was thin skinned....
Sometimes people NEED to believe in something. We are all at different places in our lives and we all have different circumstances. I just think it is sad that some people feel the need to try and force everyone into the same mold.
IF I want to believe in something, IF it makes ME feel better and hurts no one, why would you want to rip it away from me? To validate your own belief system?
Human nature will never cease to perplex me.....
Xena,
You don't understand. I was pointing out to LT that people who believe in pink unicorns should be sectioned;
everybody knows that ALL unicorns are orange. Jeez!
Spanner
Let me just say this - if folks want to believe in pink unicorns, why not let them?
So your saying that you would let your fellow man (or woman) believe something that's not true? Why would you do this? If I meet a jw and he actually wants to talk to me (I'm df'd) I would try to show him as much as possible that the jw org is wrong, inherently wrong. I know your trying to give an example when you say pink unicorns...but they don't exist!
As far as the bible, if you research it as I have, and much to my surprise, it's flawed as well, and believe me I was surprised. The ONLY thing I will not debate with anyone, is the existence of God, there is no proof either way to his existence.
Xena
IF I want to believe in something, IF it makes ME feel better and hurts no one, why would you want to rip it away from me? To validate your own belief system?
If I truely cared about someone, I would want them to know the "truth" of what they are believing. To me, that's not forcing someone to believe as I do, that's showing a friend he or she can find a better path to travel. This life is too short for any of us to waste time on things that are not true. The WT is a good example. There is no doubt that many people here didn't want to believe the org was wrong, I didn't. But if you had the chance to show anyone the org was wrong, even though they are happy with it, would you? I know this is an example of the org compared to the topic, but it goes to the same principle. There are alot of people in the org who don't get hurt by it and are happy, would you show them the "truth"? I would. I would consider it a failing on my part not to help my fellow man (or woman) to a better path in life.
Um, quit saying that pink unicorns dont exist. My purple unicorn is looking for a mate and is becomming very discouraged by this thread.
On a serious note, though, I have observed in my life that when some people lose their happiness or discover that it was a false happiness, they cannot wait to harsh somebody else's buzz and become intolerant of behavior or beliefs that they once held dear.
Misery loves company sometimes.
Robyn
Dave: Thanks for the brilliant post, unfortunately buried in a thread that appears about to be taken over by the smurf set.
There are things in life we don't quite understand because we were never allowed to learn and we make stupid and embarrassing mistakes because of it. We fumble through social settings trying to learn how to fit in and we walk away feeling awkward and maladjusted. We blame the screwed up religion for that. We also blame them for stealing the minds and hearts of our parents and siblings. We have been mentally and socially raped and to make it worse, we have been left alone in life to deal with our pain.God, I hope you are wrong and that there is life after the watchtower. But you're so right about the awkward, maladjusted feelings. We're strangers in a strange land.
Gumby,
Great thread. Over on KGB's 'swan song' thread you said;
***I have noticed a pattern in people also who begin to have doubts about what they believe....( and this doesn't neccesarily apply to KGB.) They get angry when they begin to think others might perhaps be correct about something they themselves have different opinions about. This is especially true with religious people. As an example......a mother might be told by her young daughter that daddy is touching her. She denies it even to the point of blaming the daughter for telling her something that she feels....if true.......she could not bear and so she denies it to the point of anger and denial.***
This imo really sums up the issue.
Dave's summation of the tremendous damage done to us by the wtbs, is reason enough to, at the very least, examine any new, revised, amended version of what we were taught.
What KGB and others who become offended do not see, is that it is these so called 'bashing' comments will not be forthcoming from those we associate with in real life. We tend to surround ourselves with like minded friends, who would probably never offer much if any of the material found here.
Thats what makes this place valuable to us. If one can negotiate around here, without becoming defensive, angry, or hurt.......your on the road to being truly open minded. Otherwise might as well just go back to being a jw......I mean who does it hurt?
Danny
Dave:Excellent post, btw (sorry I didn't mention it earlier - I took it as a given).
Spanner:
I believe I asked two reasonable questions, in light of the context of what I originally wrote.
If you don't want to answer...
Obiwan:
I would want them to know the "truth" of what they are believing.
And that's my point. It's what YOU want, and (IMHO) not always of necessity in the bests interests of the individual.
This life is too short for any of us to waste time on things that are not true. The WT is a good example
On the contrary - the WT is an extreme example, and unfortunately one that may have coloured most of our perceptions...
Besides, isn't it up to the individual to choose what they want to waste their time doing and being interested in?
Everyone wants to believe in something, even if it's merely that the human race can aspire to something greater.
Can't you give someone 10/10 for effort, even if their achievement isn't up to par (in your estimation)?
Robyn:
...they cannot wait to harsh somebody else's buzz and become intolerant of behavior or beliefs that they once held dear.
Agreed.
I can understand the desire, because I'd like the WTS to fall, just as much as the next person. What I find hard to comprehend is going at it, hammer and tongs, with no reasonable alternative offered.
It's like the "pit-props" illustration. Providing something substantial and letting the false fall away.
Unless you provide something substantial to believe in, why would you want to just pull out all the pit-props in someones life? Just because it was done to you??
Willyloman:
Humour a poor Brit - what's the "smurf set"???
It works both ways.... some people are very condescending when they meet someone with a different viewpoint than their own. I have seen atheists being rude to christians, and I've seen christians be rude to atheists.
As a dub I was insanely judgemental of people's beliefs. I would sometimes act in a condescending way towards those of other religions. I am determined not to repeat that mistake.
While I do make an internal judgement on other people's beliefs, I try to be accepting and not look down on them. But if they make the first move and attack my beliefs, I will defend myself.
I would want them to know the "truth" of what they are believing.
And that's my point. It's what YOU want, and (IMHO) not always of necessity in the bests interests of the individual.
You side stepped my other comment related to this.
So your saying that you would let your fellow man (or woman) believe something that's not true? Why would you do this?
How can this be healthy for anyone to live in a fantasy world?
This life is too short for any of us to waste time on things that are not true. The WT is a good example
On the contrary - the WT is an extreme example, and unfortunately one that may have coloured most of our perceptions...
Then there are alot of extreme examples out there that people believe in.
I guess what I'm trying to say or the point I'm trying to make is, showing someone the truth about what they believe in is all in how people perceive it. Some see it as making others believe what you believe, I see it as showing the actual facts of what they believe, no forcing my beliefs on them, just showing the facts. And if the facts show contrary to what they believe, and they choose not to beleive any more then thats there choice, I didn't make them decide.
I think I explained myself rather poorly before...sorry.
