by Tahoe 38 Replies latest jw friends
Morph, I say this in the nicest way, but you can be a real dick sometimes. Like you have really good things to say usually, the cautionary advice is helpful, but:
But by all means keep practicing your cantankerous old man routine. Im sure it will serve you in good stead as you progress into your twilight years :)
Why would you say that? What are you trying to accomplish?
Your scenario starts with an admission. No witnesses are needed or sought. - Morph
Even you know why your argument fails.
If there is no admission of fornication — even if there is adamant denial — two JWs can be DFd based only on circumstantial evidence.
In the case of child sex abuse an unreasonable threshold of evidence is demanded.
The fact that you would use this topic to try to score points with childish insults says a great deal about you. You make this forum an unpleasant place to participate.
If JW meetings are targeted by paedophiles, a consequence would be that some of them, enjoying the welcome and numbers of victims present, will also be joining the org-- which seems to be the case.
A response from the GB could be yet a further excuse to finish with KH meetings altogether. (I imagine that the book study in private homes must have led to too much intimacy among believers?)
"So the way forward brothers is with TV broadcasting". This would allow collecting an enormous sum from the sale of the halls and it would be explained away with some scripture or other to the satisfaction of all the flock-- who are duty bound to believe whatever they are told.
It's a win-win situation. The GB would get their hands on the money and the rest of the organisation rots on the vine.
Even you know why your argument fails. You started your example with an admission. It in no way relates to the circumstances being discussed. Let me refresh your failing memory. You said:
If two unrelated people admit to staying unchaperoned in the same house overnight, with no exceptional circumstances, they are liable to be disfellowshipped for fornication.
See, you started with an admission. Withesses not needed. I laid out many scenarios, from the branch, that explain many circumstances under which even two witnesses are not admissible and the circumstantial evidance isnt taken as fornication.
Its not that there isnt a point to be made but the reality is, it isnt being made. Draw the analogy. What circumstantial evidence SHOULD lead one to believe that an act of pedophilia has been committed? A child spends the night at a house with somone who isnt a relative? Can you not see how that would be HUGELY problematic? Lets extend it... a simple accusation? The accusation alone isnt enough for fornication nor is it enough for pedophilia. Where do you want the line? Ive been clear already. For me the line and the answer is, was and will always be: call. The. Police.
The real issue is that sex between consenting adults is viewed as a private matter and nobody cares unless they being cheated on where as pedophilia is a sick twisted crime that most civilized people want to see stamped out and the perpetrators executed. Its creates intense emotions and people generally want to run with any accusation as completely factual. Thats also not practical or logical for a religion, with no right to enforce law, no training to investigate and no mandiate to be involved in the first place.
I am sorry that fact based logic makes it difficult for you to participate here. Im sure there are self help books that can provide tools for coping.
If all this thread is about is to shout into the echo chamber and have like voices agree, congratulations. If this thread is about trying to construct an argument and drawn a comparison between their dealings on adultry and their dealings on pedophilia for dispassionate observers, its been ineffective.
Your ridiculous argument is plain for anybody to see. I am not going to dialogue with somebody who behaves the way you do. I have had many confrontations on this forum over the years but your myopic arrogance is in a league of its own.
Hey Morph, we're all on the same side here, aren't we? We all want children protected. Let's see each other as allies, because we are allies.
Just antiwitnessed with this article by the way at a cart outside a bus station manned apparently by a married couple. The man said pedophilia is everywhere and there's nothing to do about it, and that Elders get asked if they're into kids before they get appointed... because a pedophile is just gonna come right out and admit that. The naivete. I was pleasant and we weren't arguing, I kept it brief.
HalfBanana: If JW meetings are targeted by paedophiles, a consequence would be that some of them, enjoying the welcome and numbers of victims present, will also be joining the org-- which seems to be the case.
And let's not forget that in some cases, it is entirely the other way around. The JWs actively participate in Prison Visitation programs. From what I remember from reading another thread about prison visits, the consensus is that it is primarily pedophiles who are attracted to the JW Bibble studies inside prison. And, I have read about some of those pedophiles being "sponsored" of sorts by congregations under their release conditions. *wish I could find the thread about this...
And never mind the convicted murderers and rapists that have "converted" to the one true religion.
I remember years ago hearing lots of talks about how the angels keep God true organization clean, so everybody could relax because God was looking after everything.
It would appear that either these angels were unbelievably incompetent, or the talks like so much else were total drivel.
I'm not religious, haven't been for years, but 'by their fruits you will know them' indeed. For a religion that abhors child sex abuse they sureas hell cover a lot of it up.
Good point Birdie regarding JWs recruiting paedophile prisoners. The JWs will applaud the miraculous "conversion" of the criminal and praise Jerhoover, ignoring the fact that with child abusers, a repetition of the offence is likely --this time inside the congregation.
