by robrog8999 33 Replies latest jw friends
robrog8999 ,
Then I would suggest to you ,appreciating your response , go to a pro-JW site where you can talk ,communicate with believers of this religion whether it be FB , twitter ,etc.etc, their are plenty places to go including JW.ORG. , so why are you here ? this is primarily an ex JW site.
just asking
Welcome here and thanks for introducing yourself. I agree with freddo given the fact that all religions fail to be 100% correct regarding doctrine and prophecy, but after reading your story, a few things come to my mind. Regarding both JW and LDS, you might find it useful to check out some experiences of long time member slimboyfat. Just search and read. Also, the recently posted topic "Who has the authority to decern [sic] what the bible really teaches" had some interesting comments about personal interpretation. Enjoy the forum!
Also Robo, the Bible tells us that Jesus was the creator of all things
Colossians 1:16
John 1:3
Listener.... In regards to your question/comment about my stance on the Trinity & the one true religion...
Well as for the Trinity, there is one meaning for the Doctrine of the Trinity. Yes, many members view it differently and it does vary from member to member based on their understanding of it. People look at the doctrine differently then others but there's actually one meaning for it. The Doctrine of the Trinity is- The Union of three persons in one Godhead, Or the threefold personality of the one Divine Being.
That is the official Doctrine created by the council in the Creed Of Nicaea in AD 325. The Creed adopted by the council described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father."
And it is THAT same creed that was passed along and then taught by trinitarian churches. Rather they changed forms over the years, were slightly taught or preached in various other ways or even members own understanding of them differed isn't the problem. As anyone can beleive how they want in his/her own way. Were all entitled to that. But what is important too me is that I know who God is and who/what I am worshipping. And I dont beleive God wants us to be confused as to who He is. And the Trinity doctrine is very confusing. With many pastors even saying its beyond human comprehension. But I feel God wants us to know exactly who He is and who were worshipping. And he tells us just who He is directly, boldly in the Bible. And Jesus Himself also makes it clear who He is...that is, Son of God. He even said that the Father is greater then He. And that what he teaches comes from the Father. Clearly, He is making it perfectly clear that He is not God. And that all worship goes to the Father.
With that said, most of the Christian Churches who teach the Doctrine of the Trinity dont agree with that. And feel that Jesus is equal to God. And its an obvious error.
Now when you say they are 3 working together, that is different from the Trinity. I also believe they are 3 working together. But I also acknowledge that they're separate and not one in deity. And the Trinity says they are 3 in 1 deity.
What you are referring to sounds more like the Doctrine of the Godhead. Which is different from the Trinity. You described the Godhead.3 Individuals who work together basically as a team, a family. Therefore being one. I do think that sounds more biblical then a Trinity.
Onto your next question.
Why do I think there is one true religion? And why the JW, Or mormons (being newer) would be the true church since they arent the original Church?
Let me try and answer your first question in a simple way.
Its like this, we have truth and then anything outside of the truth is false, right? Its either an error or a lie. For example, Does God exist? The answer is Yes or No. It's only one answer. It cant be both. Only ONE truth to that. You cant choose both and be correct. So if we branch it out, lets say, one says God is all-powerful, creator of all. another says God is limited and only created some things.. a third says God is no more powerful then humans and didnt create nothing. We have 3 conflicting things here. They cant all be true. Only one. How can the first AND second both be right? Either God is all powerful, creator of everything or hes limited and created some things... It's one or the other..we cant preach different, conflicting things yet all be right. Therefore, only one of those 3 people could be correct. Its the same as that, but of course in a more broader sense.
All religions teach different things. THat's why they are separate and different. They vary on teachings and preach different things. Some have huge differences, while others are more similar, but still different. And I dont think God has conflicting characteristics or personalities. I think He has one personality. Very complex one maybe but still one personality.
In our topic with the Trinity for example, It says He is one God, one substance, yet three people. All equal, all eternal, all-knowing etc. Therefore saying Jesus is God. lets say that is true. By saying thats fact (pretending) that right away says that Mormong, JW and several other sects who dont support the trinity are wrong. So with that said, we now know that all the churches who dont teach the trinity have false teachings therefore, they're in error and wrong. Theres no arguement there, right? Either God is a trinity and Jesus is God or hes not. they cant all be right.
Basically, I just feel God set the bible out for us to learn and understand Him. To love and obey Him. To know who he is and how to live correctly. The Bible is God telling us HIS truth. And many people changed different scriptures or doctrines for their own benefit. I feel. The bible is confusing at times, I admit. And I beleive that. But I dont think it's so complicating as to throw out so many different meanings that should divide so many of us. I think a lot of that is mans own doing, fitting it to their own likes therefore creating so many different doctrines.
With that said, I feel theres truth and then anything that contradicts that truth is error. And with all the christian groups all differing from eachother on doctrine and beliefs, therefore becoming different in teaching, all saying conflicting things, there can only be one that is true. Not all of them.
And I am, and have been, seeking just which one that is. Rather its the JW, Mormons, or some other Church, I have no idea. But I will continue in my Bible study and research until I find the one that i believe PERSONALLY , is in line with the Bible and has all biblical teachings. With no error. As I feel that Church does exist, as I would like to believe God has the truth aviaible for us to find by seeking after it.
And to the last part: WHy would any of these "newer" churches be the true church since they werent around as the first church. And I understand why you would ask that. But lets take the Mormon Church for example. They were founded in the 1800s. Making them a newer church. BUT, they claim to be the restored church. The original church. Basically, Christ set up His Church and soon after He died, the truth got lost. None of the original founders were on the Earth anymore and people started changing doctrines, removing them or adding to them (trinity for example). Which would explain the reason we have so many denominations with differing views and doctrines. Basically, error filled the church and the original one was no longer around. So the Mormons feel as though they ARE the original church restored.
The same logic goes for many of the other Churches. Reformed, restored, etc they all feel as though they are the original church. Not a new one, but a restored one.
As for the JW, who dont have that claim. As far as I have read, I may be wrong, but from what I can tell the Church began from a failed prophecy. And kind of grew and branched from there. Never claiming to have been the original church. But that doesnt mean it's not Gods Church. I have yet to identify with a Church, as i explained, I am still finding the truth for myself, but what I do know is that the Original church created in the new testament did fall apart soon after. Rather it disappeared altogether, or puzzled out for a time before piecing back together, I dont know.. but its clear that the truth was removed for a time. Man-made doctrines were introduced and put forth (trinity) that were not apart of the Original church. Early in the church they also destroyed many teachings, burnt what they didnt personally agree with (said it was not scriptural) we lost many writings in the early church and what they didnt want to be scriptural, based on their own feelings regardless of rather it was factual or not, took away many of the teachings from the original church. So it's easy to see that the original church was in fact wiped away or badly flawed after the death of the Apostles. So unless God did put Joseph Smith here to restore His true Church, or another prophet within Christianity history to rebuild or restore it, we wouldnt have the original church here today. Rather the Mormons are correct or not, I dont know.. Rather some of the Christian Reformers (John Calvin, Martin Luther, etc) were correct in their reform, I dont know. But i do know that Christianity at some point was lost. With that being said, Any of these Churches could be correct and the true religion rather they were created in latter times or earlier in history.
ANyway, hopefully that answers your questions. Rather you agree with it or not, is entirely up to you. But as for myself, those are the things I choose to believe and seek after.
Yeah I can see this is defiantly more for ex JW. I dont understand why so many would be apart of a Jehovah's Witness forum anyway? You come here for the first time and see message boards mostly designed for members of the faith, you would assume most on here would be members. But it mostly seems like a bashing forum. Defiantly upside down! ha.
Okay, well I am defiantly going to go my way now! Thnks for the responses regardless! Have a wonderful day!
It wasn't until I left the JWs that I started to examine the mormon church. Briefly from a doctrinal point of view I think you would have to be more guliable to become a mormon than a jw. That been said JWs are far more dangerous in their beliefs e.g blood. Btw I spent nearly 40 years in the religion and neither am I a trinitarian.
Hello Robrog 8999..
Welcome to this forum. You are obviously a truth searcher. That is admirable and shows that you are an intelligent person. But if you really want to find the truth, I think the first task is to make an introspection of yourselves. This meaning that you´ll have to find out your motive and how your basic knowledge of moral, bible issues, understanding of philosophical ideas came about.
You are brought up in Columbus Ohio. What if you were born in Calcutta India? or Bangkok? Or South Africa? Would you have been a Christian then? Would you ever notice that 1 billion Christians believe (questionable), that some old rolls/codex written in ancient greek or Hebrew letters are THE WORD FROM GOD. (Or at least some of our interpretations)….
It looks like you think that the Bible itself….can deliver the water of truth, if it is only explained to you. So I suggest that you take up serious Bible studies and take a few courses with real Bible scholars. I can recommend Prof. Bart Ehrman, from Chapel Hill, N.Carolina. He can add a lot of knowledge to your Bible questions. He is specialist in “new testam” historical facts, and it astonishing that very few from those who think they have the “KNOWLEDGE” never refer to Bart…. Look him up in youtube…
ROBROG - as a "J.W" who has devoted the past 5 years to researching the religion I was brought up in, all I can say is that I wish you well in your search.
Advice? If you start studying with J.W.'s, ask them pointed questions about some of their doctrines - and see how their attitude toward you changes! Do some serious market research before you "buy the product," otherwise you will simply become another subject to be controlled and dictated to.
I give you my word, J.W.'s themselves cannot seriously question doctrines or directives without facing very unpleasant consequences. They call such people "independent thinkers."
If you think that such a religion meets the "gold standard" of John 13:35, then join them.
Looking into a highly controlling, manipulative, Pharisaical CULT like JW's, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, or Scientology?
Good luck with that sh*t!!!!!
Obviously, I had no right to judge as I was judging a huge community of different backgrounds
Feel free to judge them all as if they believed exactly the same, because they do. It's a high mind control group. They all are forced to do and think alike, even if it cost them their lives (blood policy), family unity (shunning) and sacrificing your dreams (no higher education, no material things, poverty vows) to serve a heartless corporation.
