Baptism 1973 and 1985 Questions hmmmmmmmmmm!

by Beans 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Beans

  I was doing some research and noticed that the baptism questions were changed several times over the years. The questions in 1973 were as follows: *** w73 5/1 280 Baptizing Follows Discipling *** If you feel the same about serving Jehovah God and taking Christs yoke upon you, we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of candidates for baptism:

  (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

  (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit? And the questions for baptism in 1985 were as follows: *** w85 6/1 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***

  (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

  (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovahs Witnesses in association with Gods spirit-directed organization?

  Where does it mention the holy spirit? It was mentioned in 1973...why not in 1985.........they couldnt just have accidentally left it out.....isnt it important as well?
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  Frannie Banannie

  My, oh my, oh my, Beans....this is EXACTLY the reason why the borg's disf-ing me was majorly wrong....they had no right to accuse me of apostasy for writing that letter to the Gov. Potty condemning them for their badness.....because my allegiance was sworn to under the terms of the questions in 1973....and not to a group of men....

  Frannie B
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  AlanF

  Good points, Beans!

  For a more comprehensive look at this issue, read the article "An Aspect of the Legalism of Jehovah's Witnesses" here: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/legal.htm

  AlanF
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  tinkerbell82

  wow, they really took the fire and brimstone out of the original questions, didnt they? very interesting. i'd only ever heard the second set since i wasnt around for the first ones. i've been wondering what the change was, exactly. thanks, beans. :)
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  Ravyn

  I was one week older than my twelth birthday when I was baptized May 25, 1974. That was not legally binding in the US. I did not know they changed the baptism questions(and therefore the contract I was under since I turned 18) until 1996 at which time I considered the contract null and void and I left. Had I known it had been changed in 1985 I would have left in 1985. Technically I did not leave the Borg----it left me.

  Ravyn
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  Gamaliel

  Beans,

  (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovahs Witnesses in association with Gods spirit-directed organization?

  What's the problem? You can't see that the Holy Spirit is made manifest in the organization?

  All kidding aside, this is pretty blatant language. It explicity says that your baptism puts you with God's organization. Knowing that Mt 28 says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit they have managed to create a Trinity of Jehovah, Jesus, and the Organization. In fact a sin against the Father or the Son is easily forgiven -- but a sin against the Organization is not forgiven. Just ask any average family of good JWs who have a relative who was disfellowshiped for immorality and another relative disfellowshipped for speaking out against the Organization. They will rarely admit it to outsiders, but JWs amongst themselves, both practically and philosophically, will still treat "apostasy" as a much greater sin than pedophilia. (And "apostasy" to JWs can mean someone decided to believe the Bible and accept Jesus Christ. Merely quoting John 3:16 amongst fellow JWs makes you an immediate apostasy suspect.)

  Gamaliel
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  shotgun

  I thought the question promoted in the bible was...Hey... here's a body of water what's preventing me from getting baptized? Phillip says.....nuttin...Then after the joyous occassion he heads back to Ethiopia and sends his monthly service report via camel express to the GB in Jerusalem.

  When you look at that second question being asked after 1985 you have to laugh....Damn why didn't I say NO.

  Can you imagine the 3000 who were baptized in a single day in the first century saying something like that. They hadn't even been identified by the name christian yet.
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  fairy

  Hey, didnt i see that exact same writing on another site written by someone else? I think i did
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  fairy

  I did see it on another site! It was me who wrote it.
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  fairy

  yes, i realise that the holy spirit is mentioned in the questions when they were changed in 1985