by Amazing 48 Replies latest jw friends
Thanks for posting that info Jim. Unfortunately, it's just another case of the Empire saying one thing and doing another. Regardless of what they printed in their Flock book, it depends on the elders and CO's as to whether that direction is followed.
I can only hope that the truth you posted reaches the hearts of at least one family and brings them closer to each other across the division of disfellowshipping.
Keep up the good work. You're a real treasure to this board.
Mike.
The Elders try to discern motives, and then interpret ones heart condition. Even though they say they don't. The sad thing is they predetermine what your motive is before they ever talk to you. So whatever you say proves what they already thought! Just using this material, (and I love it, so don't get me wrong) shows a person to have a "bad heart"! They have no honor, or truth, and their motive is to protect the corporation! Maverick
HI Maverick and Bendrr,
I agree that in practice the average JW Elder will likely try to minimize the paragraph, and try to talk down the average JW by telling him/her they do not properly understand the points in the "Flock" book. Some Elders may try to write or call the Society if there is an issue in dispute. Maybe a few Elders will even see it the way it is stated, and look the other way.
My hope is that some JWs will see this, or be referred to the "Flock" book, and realize that they can associate with their DF'd relative, much as was said above. Then if they get questioned, they can at least refer to the material in the "Flock" book (not to a web site fiull of evil apostates ) and legalistically wiggle their way out of trouble.
They may even write to the Society themselves to get the 'proper view' but at least they have one "out" in the event they are nabbed by the Elder police.
Yes, and I hope some will. Every crack adds up. I laud you for exposing this one. We chip away and hopefully someday....Maverick
I quoted this paragraph to my son-in-law in hopes that he would soften his position toward allowing us to see our daughter and grandchildren. His reaction was that "nothing has changed." We still have no contact with her and the children. It's been over twenty years now.
Another elder in a different congregation was asked why my daughter refused to have assocition with us. His reply was that it was "a personal choice" made by my daughter. He indicated that there was no rule forbidding her to contact us.
There is some truth in both statements. For those who keep contact with disfellowshipped family members, they can cite the reference and say it is "important family business." Other "die hard" JWs can cite the many other references in the Watchtower literature that discourage and forbid any contact whatsoever. In a way, it is a personal decision. But it is a decision that is influenced by the cruel and careless policy of the Watchtower Society that speaks with a "double tongue."
My brother, a long-time elder and now a circuit overseer, stopped associating with me almost 20 years ago. I've never been disfellowshipped or reproved; neither have I diassociated myself. His reasoning is that I'm an apostate because I left the religion (and therefore god, in his mind) and because I don't believe the JW teachings. I tried to reason with him about the fact that I got baptized as a minor, and that if I'd known then what I know now, I never would have been baptized. It doesn't matter to him. I left the religion; I'm an apostate. Very black and white. He's convinced my sister to take the same stand.
The funny thing is that he made this decision long before I married Alan, the arch-apostate. Now he's really scared to death of me!
"The JW is free to associate"..... That's misleading, Amazing. He is NOT free to associate under those conditions. We all know JW's have no freedom. If a JW associated with his DF'd relative, it could cost him congregational "privileges". No, a JW is NOT free to associate with a DF'd relative. Every "Bible-trained Christian, loyal Witness" knows that. It could "stumble" someone. We cannot even exercise our "rights".
Hi Minimus,
The JW is free to associate"..... That's misleading, Amazing. He is NOT free to associate under those conditions.
Actually the issue is about "close relatives" and in that regard JWs have more freedom than they believe. Also, as I noted above, generally that is true that JWs are not really free in practice. I am merely pointing our a discrepancy between 'secret' information to Elders only and what is generally believed and practiced in the religion. There is nothing misleading about that. Were I to still be a JW, knowing what I now know, I would certainly be "free" ... and in fact I did just that while I was still a JW ... near the very end of my being a JW, I started doing what I wanted to do, and made sure I found published information in the event I was nabbed. This allowed me to attend a wedding in a 'church' ... I just made sure I had the articles on hand to get me off the hook.
I think the "secret" is out in the Spt. 15, 1981 WT.
amazing,
I wanted to give my example to show it CAN be done, however
my family is ... how can I say it ...
... powerful and long-established, to tell the truth.
And to impart a little more truth, I think there is probably a lot of resentment in the local 'hovah community over this. However, we stick to the rules as outlined, so I guess (I dunno, cause I don't know any of them) they can't nail my parents for it, and HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART
'as long as THEY want to see ME.'
I KNOW this is true since my brother, nephews, aunts, uncles, all choose NOT to see me.
So a word of caution to the hopeful, just because they CAN, doesn't mean they WILL.
Remember, you chose a path of freedom, don't let this get you down. They are making an unwise choice of the shunning path. It's not your fault, but theirs and YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM.
This was a big problem for me for many years because of my big brother. It was so painful for him to shun me. But I realized finally that it was HIS choice and I had no say in it, so it was time to 'give it up'.
All those out there suffering b/c of this {{{{{}}}}}. Acceptance is a good step on the way to healing.
peace, love & happiness
talesin
