Many of us were once fervent supporters and active members of the WTBS through our local congregations. When confronted with controversial information while under the influence of the organization, many of us were instantly defensive, dismissive, skeptical and fearful. We chose to continue believing the leadership knew better than we did and had our best interests at heart, despite any logic, or lack of reason. Therefore, for years, many of us perpetuated the gripping hold the WTBS exercised over our lives and thinking. We typically exhonerated and excused any negative information, true or questionable as merely unimportant, conjecture, rumor, gossip and apostate mis-information. We now know we were wrong!
Today, many of us are no longer under this crippling influence and have managed to break free and take control of our lives. However, certain behavioral traits seem to linger. Recently, in several threads discussing the BUSh administration, I have noticed a few posts from certain members practically excusing the american leadership.
Some of the phrases were "he is our president and this is our country right or wrong", and "I trust our government to do the right thing", "we were attacked on 9/11". Now, while it is obvious to me that such blanket statements are personally dangerous for a thinking mind, I find it might be helpful if I share my opinion.
I feel those of us who survuved the WTBS should have learned a large lesson that transcends religion. In life, government, religion, business, family, education, and anything else where humans gather and organize, you must always question, you must always maintain a degree of skepticism, you must apply scrutiny to information from all sources in this world.
To assume that things will take care of themselves, or that leaders have your best interest at heart, or that integrity and honesty exists where power, greed and temptation are in high availability is foolish. Put your thinking back on because humans outside of religion are capable of the same behavior you experienced under the WTBS.
Where do you think they learned?
"Cognitive Dissonance Revisited" or "Old Habits Die Hard" - Friendly Advice
by Utopian Reformist 11 Replies latest social current
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Utopian Reformist
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frenchbabyface
THANKS ... A LOT for this poste, for some reason I feel like this poste need to farest on the question of the RIGHT and WRONG information who INFLUENCED the Wrong and Right PRIORITIES in what we have to deal with everyday ... I just hope that people will tell HERE what they are thinking about in EVERY ASPECT of their LIFE. And how we can messed up Ourselves lives or reputation and nor Others lifes or reputation just because of THAT ...
(((KISSES EVERYBODY)))
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Frannie Banannie
Ardent religious and patriotic believers have a lot in common....
Frannie B
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maybesbabies
"The people are the ultimate guardians of their own liberties. In every government on earth is some trace of human weakness, some germ of corruption and degeneracy. Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone."
-Thomas Jefferson
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison
"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning."
-Frederick Douglass
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. "
-William Pitt
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
If only we had a time machine to bring these men back, they'd be bending our leaders over their collective knees for a serious butt-whooping!
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Utopian Reformist
Thx for the extensive quotes "MessyBabies". Nice touch. To French Baby Face: I agree entirely with your sentiments.
P.S. I forgot to nominate French Baby Face for world's most gorgeous woman. After seeing your family pictures, you should have been nominated also! -
Panda
ummmm... I don't recall reading this is our country right or wrong or our gov't has our best interests at heart... I know those aren't exact quotes but I am concerned that you somehow feel that by leaving the borg everyone would start hating America. If you've lived in other countries then you know that people WANT to come to America. I'm all for opening our borders but cutting social services.
Surely everyone questions decisions made by the gov't. I wouldn't say I actually trust the gov't. Even some of those quotes --- especially Jefferson (the misogynist). Both Jefferson and Madison believed that blacks were sub-human. And rather than an amalgamation they wanted to ship freed slaves off to some other country. So I don't care much for their quotes which were made to get a reaction, a public reaction. No one wants to give up freedoms, no one. But many folks are unable to see what an alternative might be.
After the Sept.11 attack on America and the murder of thousands of people many folks were/are justifyably frightened. So to some giving up some freedoms seem necessary. I don't agree. But that doesn't mean I disagree w/the gov't on everything. Fortunately, I am free to disagree. I vote. I talk about new legislation even if just at the coffee shop with a few aquiantances. There was a time when people enjoyed the give and take of argument.
"You will only be able to change the world one person at a time.---" Maya Angelou
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Victorian sky
Utopian you make some interesting points but I'm with Panda. I vote because I have the freedom to. I haven't transfered my faith in a crazy religion to any government. I believe that the horrific events of 9/11 justified a response, call it vengence or anything else you want but hell yes, a response by the government was totally appropriate. Maybe you missed this post but Simon mentioned that 9/11 wasn't just an attack on America, that 80 other countries lost citizens. And just because my blinders are off to the WTS doesn't mean I'm going to turn into a philosopher and sit back and question everything to death or bash what other people may feel strongly about, even if I disagree. I don't swallow everything I hear or see either. Balance is a good thing - V Sky
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Victorian sky
Sorry, the post I quoted wasn't from Simon, don't know who said it but it's true.
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Jayson
Panda I am not questioning you I would like to ask what "freedoms" have you given up? What "freedoms" would you give up? Everyone here talks about all the loss of freedom; Where, when, what, and WHO, who has lost their freedom and what did they loose?
V S,
I was the one who talked about 80 countries being attacked. Thanks for agreeing with it. That fact seems to not be well taken here @ JWD.
Leaving the JW cult and voting or even participating in government is not trading one cult for another. I think that trying to build a case for that is silly. But, both are ideologies.
Jayson (Of the not remembered for the nice things he says class)
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talesin
jayson
I think you debate in an admirable fashion, and you don't resort to name-calling. It was a pleasure debating w/you, even though we disagreed.
Just had to throw that in since I'm just reading this thread.
tal
(of the 'remembers who says nice things' class)