by AnnaNana 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
"If I were to fly up to the highest skies, you would be there,
And if I were to fall deep into the lowest pits, you would be there with me too.
Whether from the place where the sun rises or the place where it sets,
or even to the most far away parts of the sea,
You will be there to hear me and stay with me."
That sounds nice .
Yes, you are right. It is nice, that He has been here for all of us all this time, no matter what we are going through or where we are.
It is nice.🙂💖😌
Anna Nana wrote:
All those fake "Paul" books weren't written by Paul. They were written by pharisaical apostates and read more like the way the Didache or so-called "apostolic fathers" like Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp. A bunch of trash writings that go directly against what Christ taught.
Here, if you read them yourself, you can see the similarity to the so-called "epistles of Paul."...
Also, the supposed epistles of John, James, Jude, and Peter also were not written by John, James, Jude, and Peter, but instead have elements of gnostic books.
If you read them in a Greek Interlinear instead of the watered down English versions, you can see very clearly the kabbalistic teachings thrown in.
This is incorrect because the teachings of Kabbalah as a formalized movement were not invented until the 13th century in Southern France and Northern Spain.
While some who practice Kabbalah have ascribed some of its teachings to the Talmudic master Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, he did not create the practice. It began with a man by the name of Moses de Leon and others who would later find inspiration from Simon bar Yochai's teachings. Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai lived in the second century CE, specifically during the time of Roman rule in Judea. He was a prominent Tanna, a student of Rabbi Akiva, and is traditionally credited as the author of the Zohar, a central text of Jewish Kabbalah. He did not live during the time of the Apostle Paul, who was active in the 1st century CE.
Many of the traditions of modern Judaism or even during historic times in the nation were not things mandated by God. They were added on activities that made things more difficult for the people and were introduced by religious hypocrites.
The idea of a Messiah was one of those things added by "modern Judaism." It was post-Biblical. There are no mentions of a coming Messiah in any of the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible or mention that "the Messiah shall do thus" or even the term "Messiah" in any of the Hebrew prophets.
The first mention of the term "Messiah" came from the Gemara and the Mishnah, and it was a theology of the Pharisees. They believed in a future messiah who would usher in an era of peace. They also believed in resurrection, judgment, and an afterlife, which the Sadducees rejected.
This theology was created because the Hasmonean dynasty had failed, falling into the hands of the Herods and under the control of the Romans which lead to the Jews losing their independence to them. The Pharisees believed that this was due to the fact that the Hasmonean kings were of the tribe of Levi and that the Mosaic Law specified that only an anointed one (Messiah) of the House of David had this right. Thus they began to apply any prophecy that spoke of a future Golden Age for Israel in chain references to those that spoke about promises to David's successors. The Pharisees' focus on oral tradition and their belief in a future messiah are key aspects of this theology.
Other sects, like the Sadducees, developed their stands and views--Sadducees opposing on the grounds that there is only this life, and groups like the Zealots viewing that it was up to them to bring political change that the Pharisees claimed the Messiah was to bring in the future, etc.
When the Temple fell, only the Pharisees and the Christians were left, leaving the Christians and the Jews with the teachings of the Pharisees about the Messiah, albeit with differing opinions of who that might be.
Regardless of your beliefs that you want to keep or practices that you wish to hold, your views are incorrect.
It is impossible for the Pauline epistles (whether written by the apostle Paul or not) to be affected by the Kabbalah. That didn’t exist. The Pauline epistles are the earliest work of Christianity, from the 1st century. The Kabbalah is from the 13th century.
And if you believe in the concept of the Messiah, then you believe in the teachings of the Pharisees, the same teachings “introduced by religious hypocrites,” as you put it. The concept came as a result of the fall of Maccabees and their empire to the Romans and how the Pharisees used the Hebrew Scriptures to explain it, namely a “Messiah” is coming…but that phrase “Messiah” doesn’t occur in the Hebrew Scriptures anywhere. (Its first mention is in the Talmud.)
So if you believe in it, you believe in a modern Jewish, rabbinical concept.
Hi @KalebOutWest 🥰
@KalebOutWest said: "the teachings of Kabbalah as a formalized movement were not invented until the 13th century"
I was not talking about a formalized movement, I was talking about the various teachings within kabbalism that have roots in ancient false doctrines.
But, since you're bringing it up...
Kabbalists believe they are part of the divine, right? In other words, that each person is a divine spark that has been separated and scattered during the creative process and need to reunite or something along those lines, is that correct?
If modern kabbalists have always been in existence since they are supposedly divine sparks and are eternal in nature, then aren't they older than the 13th century?
And, as regards "Messiah" - don't kabbalists themselves make clear they have a need for being "saved" from some situation? Why would they have to go up or down the "tree" if there wasn't some situation to be "saved" from and move into a different "manifestation"? By default, the actions taken by kabbalists show they are discontent with their situation in life, which is why they are always working hard on crafting some kind of change.
If they were already "saved" then why are they always trying to change themselves?
Seems to me that kabbalists are more aware of the need of a messiah than most, even if they don't use the same vocabulary to describe it.
@KalebOutWest said: "There are no mentions of a coming Messiah in any of the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible"
The Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew, so the word "Messiah" in English would of course not be found there.
But the idea of a redeemer and savior is intrinsic to the very fabric of the entire woven cloth of God's word to humans since the beginning of their creation.
Adam and Eve returned to dust, but not until after being allowed to procreate. We are here, not because of being a momentary wave in the sea of eternity, but because The Grand Architect of the Universe is giving us the opportunity to live forever in this unique form and personality we have today.
His Craftsmanship is Higher than anything we can imagine. If He chooses to save us from the dustbin, no one can still His hand.
@AnnaNana said: "May You Be Blessed"😌💖
Anna:
I didn't ask you what the Kabbalah was all about. Nobody did.
I pointed out to you that you were incorrect about stating that the Pauline epistles got their inspiration from Kabbalah, a teaching invented many centuries later.
The concept of the Davidic Messiah is not intrinsic to the Hebrew Bible. If it were, you would find at least one place where a prophet mentioned it.
I'm also a Jew. I know my own secular and religious history. Many believe the teaching and hope it to be vital and important but we would not lie and say that it was explicitedly written in our Scriptures.
I've been a religious instructor for decades, and what I told you is quite orthodox, namely that the theology developed late, after the last of the Hebrew Bible canonical texts were composed, when the independent state of the Hasmonean dynasty fell into the hands of Rome via its partnership with the Herods. The doctrine of the "Messiah" was indeed created by the sect of the Pharisees.
This is so much a part of history that some Christian scholars have theorized whether Jesus himself was a Pharisee who had gone "rogue," much like Martin Luther would centuries later against the Roman Catholic Church. This might explain Christ's appeal to Saul of Tarsus who was also a Pharisee.
The Sadducees did not believe in this new Pharisee teaching of the Messiah because it is not taught in the Torah. Also the Messianic hope teaching includes the "resurrection of the dead," which the Sadducees would not have rejected if it were so "intrinsic" as you say. If one looks at the introduction of the Messianic hope, which is historically preserved in the Talmud, one can see that it is a combination of chain references that forces one to tie Scripture texts together that otherwise have no connection in the first place that were eventually used by Christian communities to "prove" that Jesus was the Messiah.
People here don't mind if you're religious, but they don't appreciate your "high and mighty" and "overly righteous" tone that you are unlikely unaware you are giving off.
Because you have your details wrong, and refuse to be humble enough to admit this, every time you end your posts with "may you be blessed," it sounds like you are flipping us off and saying: "Go f#@k yourselves!"
I don't know if that is your intention, but I would rather give you the benefit of the doubt. Just look better into what you are writing and stop and think that some of us here might be a bit more experienced in things than you give us credit next time.
And stop "blessing" us.
I didn't say what the kabbalah was all about. I only mentioned a few things because I wanted to mention them.
@KalebOutWest said: People here don't mind if you're religious, but they don't appreciate your "high and mighty" and "overly righteous" tone that you are unlikely unaware you are giving off.
Jan from Tam said: AnnaNanna you say that you" are not anyone of importance "
I am not sure who you are talking about, @KalebOutWest. Maybe you misread the posts in the thread.
It doesn't concern me if "nobody asked" me anything specific. I don't know if you've noticed this or not, but most of the time "nobody" wants to hear what I have to say anyway, at least on here. (Just ask @stan livedeath 😜😉)
@KalebOutWest said: Because you have your details wrong, and refuse to be humble enough to admit this, every time you end your posts with "may you be blessed," it sounds like you are flipping us off and saying: "Go f#@k yourselves!"
@stanlivedeath said: now fuck off
And @KalebOutWest, If you didn't write the epistles, then how can you claim to know what inspired them?
@KalebOutWest said: I pointed out to you that you were incorrect about stating that the Pauline epistles got their inspiration from Kabbalah
@KalebOutWest said: And stop "blessing" us.
I know some people get offended if one person sneezes and another person says "bless you!" I will take it under advisement that you are in that category, my dear.
😘
Anna,
I am offended not by people blessing or sending blessings my way, but you, personally, and your attitude is what I said.
There's a difference.
But do what you want (which you are obviously doing). You obviously don't care about the feelings of others or you would be a bit nicer in your replies...
That's a Watchtower trait.
Jehovah's Witnesses can create some horrible ex-members among some wonderful ones.
Coming from you, my dear, those are all compliments.
Also, didn't Jesus say something about washing the feet of one another, out of love?
Here, @KalebOutWest...you've got something on your toes...
I was going to reply to your comments, but then Jesus came unto me in Scripture and saith to me:
“Sir, let it alone for one more year, until I dig round it and put manure on it.”--Luke 13:8.
🤣🤣🤣
I love how this is like in all opposites...
"not affiliated with Watchtower"
"friendly, tolerant"
"we take your privacy and security very seriously"
"doing our utmost to protect your identity"
lol
If you want to work in manure, I can see
you've got a lot of 💩💩💩to choose from, sir.
WE are not friendly and tolerant?
YOU are the one who made statements about Jewish people, my culture, calling us:
...the caretakers of the scriptures throughout the history of Israel [who] were religious hypocrites.
You've made false statements about various other things and are enjoying the fact that some of us are insulted or our feelings are hurt.
Your type of religious belief is nothing less than disguised cynicism for humanity.
The presence of people like you in the world is this very absence of God.
